Creating a long term equipment investment plan for new troop

[skyfiiire]

I'm involved in organizing a new troop for a local community center. I have plenty of experience in Scouting, so I've got a decent idea of the equipment needed. Still, I've been pouring over dozens of sites for good comprehensive lists of what troops should have, or should have at a bare minimum. I'll be starting with a small group, probably one patrol, 6-8 boys ages 10-12. Some are currently Webelos, some have no experience, one is transferring as a Tenderfoot. So what I'm trying to put together is a long term plan for our CO (who is committed to helping however is necessary financially), starting with what we need as a bare minimum for the first year of one patrol of new Scouts, and then what gear we need to invest in over the course of the next say 5 years and what we should expect Scouts will provide for themselves through fundraising and personal investment. I never realized until now that I took for granted where all the equipment came from when I was a Scout!

 

Thank you for any advice you can offer, or any resources you know of;

 

-Sky-

Edited September 29, 2015 by skyfiiire

[Krampus]

Depends. Will be doing more hiking or more plop camping?

[skyfiiire]

I definitely plan that we will do more backpacking and canoeing in the future as the Scouts become prepared for it. I'd like to have 'some' "plop-camping" equipment available. But it is not my 'personal preference' (does that matter?).

[Stosh]

Beg, borrow, but shy away from steal equipment, used, whatever, just to get by.  I started 18 months ago and so far we have tents (used from another troop that bought new tents) military surplus packs and sleeping bags (totally a nice surprise). and go from there.  The boys can learn to cook on a campfire, stoves will be nice down the road, but not necessary.  Rain fly, again nice, but a cheap nylon tarp will work.  

 

The boys should be able to come up with some equipment of their own, if not, someone's out there that has a huge family circus tent you can used to get started.  

 

Put out the call to other units dumping old equipment.

 

It doesn't need to be the best out of the box stuff to begin with.  Just get the boys out into the woods and if you need something down the road it will become obvious as time passes.  Remember a duct tape repaired tent is better than no tent.  I'm still using canoes after 25 years that need the bottoms duct taped each day to keep the water out.  Boys don't mind. 

[Krampus]

Yup, try putting out a note to districts in large metro councils near your home (Dallas comes to mind), asking if any unit is upgrading gear to donate their old gear to your unit. I am sure you'd could fund two troops with donations. In my district alone I know a unit that recently gave away all their gear because it was too (4 years) old.

[Rick_in_CA]

Look at the kind of camping you plan on doing, plus where you are going. In many cases, you don't need tents. In good weather, the scouts can sleep on the ground*. Or just create simple shelters with a cheap tarp, some sticks and some rope (the original 1911 edition of the Boy Scout Handbook had a section on making tents out of tarps. Plus you can find lots of examples on the internet.). You can even skip the sleeping bag and use a good old fashioned bed roll (just by folding a blanket or two and a bed sheet). Need sleeping pads? Just buy large sheets of closed cell foam and cut to size. Need cooking gear? Used aluminum or stainless pots and pans work just fine (especially with plop-camping). As @@Stosh said, look at surplus and thrift stores. Plus you can re-purpose lots of gear for cheap (I recently saw a scout troop that used Gatorade bottles for canteens. They wove nifty net holders out of string for the bottles so they could attach them to their belts or packs).

 

A Scout is Thrifty. You don't need a huge budget to get started. Then you can improve things as you go along. Plus, you will end up with gear better suited too the kind of activities your scouts end up doing.

 

*A friend of mine hiked a big chunk of the Pacific Crest Trail (he did something like 800 miles in 45 days), and he didn't carry a tent. He slept under the stars, and carried a light weight tarp in case of weather.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Rick_in_CA

[Eagle94-A1]

My thoughts.

 

1. Make sure the Scouts have some sweat equity in the purchasing of equipment. I've seen good donated equipment abused

 

2. Once you figure out the gear you need, look at Craigslist.org, garage sales, etc to get stuff.

 

3. I love government surplus gear. As one of the ASM's would say, ''if it's designed for combat, it may survive Scouts.'' There are state programs where nonprofits and local government agencies can buy gear cheap. In NC, ALICE packs for $20, axes and saws for $10, etc.

 

Good luck!

[skyfiiire]

A couple of you brought up a side topic that really pertains to this budget. As a Scout, I was raised under two great but very different Scoutmasters. From ages 11-14, our first Scoutmaster was all about plop camping. Lots of great fun and learning. Tons of gear I would never want to carry. But my second Scoutmaster was all about backpacking. So I learned a whole different method of camping, which stuck with me as an adult. I'm all about lightweight/ultralight, minimal camping. Camping with only what we can carry several miles comfortably in one trip.

 

So my next question would be: Do I impress my personal preference for camping on the boys? Is there a place for both kinds of camping in a program? Because if I had my way, we'd backpack from the start.

[Stosh]

Which is easier to start with?  

 

The boys need to get used to the outdoor environment.  Minimalist camping might be too much in the beginning.  Maybe just cabin camping with lots of outdoor activities, then maybe a circus tent with all his buddies, then, then, then, and finally Philmont.  

 

I started camping at 4 years old.  Obviously I wasn't into too much backpacking and didn't buy a pack until I was in Boy Scouts.  But I did have my own pup tent long before I was in Boy Scouts.  It was a 2-man pup tent, no floor and one end opened.  After 60+ years the last time I camped it was a 4-man Kelty with rain-fly and vestibule. 2 self-inflating pads rounded out the luxury.  The Mrs. has been camping since high school and served with the National Forestry Service in Alaska.  Are we capable of taking the boys out into the woods?  Yep and the first place we took them was a state park and spent a lot of time helping them set up old tents and showed them how to cook their food on a stick.  As a new troop of brand new Webelos cross-overs, they thought it was a fantastic adventure.  We've gotten better in the past 18 months, two summer camps, but no backpacking yet.  Sometime before we get too old, the Mrs. and I are planning on Isle Royale with the boys.  It'll probably be a couple of years, yet.    Baby steps!  For these boys, each one of those baby steps is a new adventure.  The food and fun is always more important than the equipment.  No matter how old they are, you hand them a hot dog, the'll find a stick.   

[Krampus]

Interesting tent guide which may be helpful. Take a look at the tent at the end. Could you ever imagine such a thing? 

[Eagle94-A1]

Don't know the economic resoources of your scouts, but a good backpack may be out of reach for a new scoout initially.

 

My troop does the plop camping. But with a group going to Philmont next year, we are slowly integrating backpping skills and gear. Just because you have backpacking gear, doesn't mean you cant plop camp. Heck, my son found a fully stocked chuck box at a yard sale for $40. Most of the gear was designed for packpacking!

[Stosh]

That reminds me of the old brown wall tents our troop had and the entire patrol fit into each one.  Fond memories!

[Krampus]

Don't know the economic resoources of your scouts, but a good backpack may be out of reach for a new scoout initially.

 

 

We recommend this for our scouts. It is a good, sturdy pack and for a 50L pack holds a great deal. Works for 90% of our outings. Would not recommend for extended high adventure trips but it works just fine...and the price is right!

[Stosh]

I hit E-Bay and looked up BSA Yucca Pack.  Should be able to pick them up for about $15 each.  I have 4 and the only time I do not use just one for an outing is at summer camp, then I use all 4.    I do have an Alice Pack which is my second preference.  I picked one of those up for about $30 and my $80 external frame is nice when I canoe.  The frame stretches from gunnel to gunnel and keeps my gear out of the water in the bottom of the canoe.  For extended canoe trips I have 2 military duffles with shoulder straps ($20 each) that I line with plastic.  All in all my most expensive pack is used the least and the cheapest, the most.  One of those 4 Yucca packs has my name and address written on it.  My mom did that the first year I went to summer camp as a scout.

[blw2]

A couple of you brought up a side topic that really pertains to this budget. As a Scout, I was raised under two great but very different Scoutmasters. From ages 11-14, our first Scoutmaster was all about plop camping. Lots of great fun and learning. Tons of gear I would never want to carry. But my second Scoutmaster was all about backpacking. So I learned a whole different method of camping, which stuck with me as an adult. I'm all about lightweight/ultralight, minimal camping. Camping with only what we can carry several miles comfortably in one trip.

 

So my next question would be: Do I impress my personal preference for camping on the boys? Is there a place for both kinds of camping in a program? Because if I had my way, we'd backpack from the start.

 

This was actually my question as I was reading through the first few posts of this thread....

I was thinking that the question of camping style depends really on what the boys want to do....

 

But I realize they probably don't know!

 

Personally, I'm with you... I would prefer to treat almost every trip as a backpacking trip, even it were tailgate or plop camping.... except that I would steer to some use of coolers, better menus, and such for plop camping.....

even though most of my experience is plop camping in some form or another I just like the idea of teaching simplicity and having options.... thinking that if they're used to more minimal equipment, it won't be that big of a difference to mix in some adventure now and then, on trail or with a paddle.  I think I'm in a minority with this though.

 

Our CO's troop has the boys supplying their own tents.  I suppose they share though.  The boys provide their own mess kits, which might be as simple as a plastic plate and such.... and their own bedding.

I don't see a problem with this approach personally