Funds held and managed exclusively by CO

[skyfiiire]

Does anyone here have experience running a unit where the finances are completely managed by the chartering organization? I have been voted in as committee treasurer for a new unit; this unit, which is a community center, and all funds raised by the unit, dues, donations, etc. will be deposited into the COs bank account and marked as troop funds by accounting. Any funds we need will need to be requested from the treasurer of the CO. Am I making sense? Does anyone have experience with a unit whose CO wanted it handled this way? Any advice in my role as treasurer?

 

-Sky-

Edited September 29, 2015 by skyfiiire

[Stosh]

Welcome to the forum @@skyfiiire.  I guess I have never heard of that.  I have heard where some units have submitted annual financial reports to the CO just like any other sub group would do and are audited by them as well.

[T2Eagle]

Most COs I've known and heard of don't want that.  It's going to be a lot of work for the CO Treasurer.

 

First piece of advice is sit down with the Treasurer and make sure you understand what rules they have, and whether they really want everything passing through their hands.  For instance, you're heading to a state park this weekend.  You might collect money at the scout meeting Wednesday, you might still be collecting money Friday (you'll wish this wasn't so but if wishes were fishes...).  How does the Treasurer want to handle this.  Even if you collect money no later than the meeting how do you handle it.

 

You also want to make sure you're clear on what documentation they want for reimbursements and payments.

 

And even with their Treasurer handling things you're probably going to have to track things within the troop -- who's paid, how much, etc.

 

Frankly, I'd encouragethe Treasurer and COR to talk to other organizatons and your District folks so they understand just how different this is from the norm. getting payments made., and how longit takes

[skyfiiire]

I'm currently functioning as the Treasurer, but I have been involved with another club organized through this CO, and that is how the finances were handled. I think I will meet with the CO Treasurer and see where I get. I agree it is not ideal.

[scoutldr]

I guess it is their right to do it that way, since all funds and equipment technically belong to them.  But then why have a Unit Treasurer?

[Stosh]

Why not register the CO treasurer as a member of the committee?  That way it eliminates the useless position on the committee of the treasurer and the CO treasurer will have a better idea of how scout unit finances are run.

 

When I started my new unit 18 months ago, I offered everything from the CC up to COR for members of the CO to take over on.  They refused them all.  In this case, it's one less volunteer you  have to find.....

Edited September 30, 2015 by Stosh

[qwazse]

Not BSA, but our church manages funds for several ministries in this fashion.  There are many advantages ... not the least of which is accountability.

 

It really depends on how they want you to operate. The critical thing to know is if the CO allocates a budget for your troop (i.e., you budget income and expenses yearly or quarterly, submit it, and that's what you work on ... by default there is no carry-over to the next year) or a fund for your troop (i.e., they don't ask for a budget, you just put $ in and  request them ... surplus or debt carries over every year). There's advantages to both, but certainly the latter is more conducive to youth leadership.

[David CO]

Yes, all of our funds were held in the CO accounts.  I deliberately set it up that way when I was IH.  I will explain my reasoning.

 

We did not have a unit committee member as treasure.  A Boy Scout was the treasurer.  If the boys needed to go shopping for something, he could just go to the office and sign out some petty cash.

 

My intent was not to take control away from the unit committee, it was to give more control to the boys.

[Scoutmaster613]

After all the stories of churches dumping scouts over the recent changes our group holds all money in an account set up by the treasure with 1 more person checking the receipts. 

 

As for gear. Everything has been recorded and numbered with a notarized lease contract. The equipment is leased from an individual for 1.00 per year. If the CO dumps scouting all equipment and money is retained by the Pack/Troop.

 

One of our local packs was shut down by the church for the "gay leader" choice that BSA had to change. Even though the CO approves and rejects all leader applications, and we only recruit parents of scouts that have been in the troop for at least 1 year and we know on a personal level they still decided to make this change.

 

When the church shut down the scouting troop they kept all the money raised and camping gear and started up the "Life Scout" program. Kind of sad when you have to explain to the kids why they cant go to summer camp this year unless the parent has to pay for it.

 

Not happening on my watch!

[cyclops]

Yes, all of our funds were held in the CO accounts.  I deliberately set it up that way when I was IH.  I will explain my reasoning.

 

We did not have a unit committee member as treasure.  A Boy Scout was the treasurer.  If the boys needed to go shopping for something, he could just go to the office and sign out some petty cash.

 

My intent was not to take control away from the unit committee, it was to give more control to the boys.

 

I agree. We did something similar except we do have the unit committee treasurer. There's no reason why the unit treasurer can't keep a spreadsheet to account for everything while allowing the checks and the bank account to be the responsibility of the CO. It works well as long as the CO is willing to do it. All the CO treasurer needs to do is write the checks and provide some oversight (and vice versa) for the unit treasurer.

Edited September 30, 2015 by cyclops

[SSScout]

"Welcome to Troop XYZ.  Our dues this year are $$$$.  Please make your check out to The Community Center of New Muddy Stump,  and we thank you for your support".

[NJCubScouter]

I am moving this to Open Discussion/Program as it is really about unit operations and unit-CO relations rather than fundraising.

[Eagle94-A1]

1) forgot to welcome you to the forums.

 

2) Love the VF-1J armoured Veritech that is your avatar.

[Scouter Matt]

This is going to become increasingly common because the IRS is becoming increasingly tight with how it looks at non-profit organization finances. 

 

The IRS has finally realized that the taxpayer ID numbers of non-profit organizations were being grossly abused to avoid payment of taxes on all sorts of unrelated matters.

 

If your unit funds are not subject to the same financial controls, oversight, and procedures as those of the chartering organiation, then you may be entering into "danger Will Robinson" territory should the IRS ever decide to come looking. The potential consequences for the Chartering Organization are massive, amounting to crippling fines, prison terms, and permanent loss of non-profit status. Those at the unit level, if they were found to have improperly used the tax exempt status of the chartering organization, would potentially be subject to similar. In the eyes of the IRS when the financial controls are separate and distinct that starts to look like a separate and distinct organization that should be responsible for its own taxes.

 

One of the things that has happened around here, is that all of the organizations that claim to be part of or affiliated with various churches have started to have to change their official address to be that of the church. The mail, including bank statements, now must go through the church office and be opened and read by the pastor or his designee, copies kept as necessary for church records, and copies forwarded to the treasurers and other officers of the organizations as appropriate.

 

In another part of the state, the Catholic diocese in that area is in the process of merging the finances of groups like scouts and men's clubs, etc. into the financial systems of its parishes and schools. Those organizations will put in check requests to the parish or school book-keeper who will then need to get the pastor's approval before writing a check. Their view is, that if they are fully legally and morally responsible for those funds, then they had better be able to account for every penny. It is for similar reasons that Scout councils can not allow OA lodges to have separate finances.

[Stosh]

It is my opinion that the vast majority of CO's out there are doing this to provide a service to the community and have no idea that they are ultimately responsible for the non-profit status legalities of this "organization that uses it's facilities."  

 

I know of other units out there that have for-profit businesses as their CO.  I can only imagine the door they leave open for themelves every time a Cub Sells a package of popcorn to the neighborhood.  They need to count every penny of that as income and somehow work it out so the boys receive it, but they can't they aren't a non-profit group, they're part of the business.  

 

5 families get together to form a troop.  Did they fill out all the legal forms necessary to be a non-profit?  If not they are personally liable for any income that unit creates.

 

I really don't think BSA does a very good job of keeping everyone, including CO's in the loop of the financial risk they could be entering into with a scout unit.