Pins on Adult Uniform

[vumbi]

To me, there is a whole lot more to 'setting an example' than being a stickler for the uniform. To me, getting every little thing right in 'form' is no substitute for the 'substance'.

[Krampus]

I fully understand the sentimentality of having something unofficial being given to an adult leader. Over the years I have collected by fair share of baubles and such which mean something to me and the person who gave them to me. In Cubs, I wore them on my adult brag vest. That is the appropriate place for them. In Boy Scouts I wear them on my red wool jacket. That is the appropriate place for them.

 

Given that kids learn best by example, what example do we set when we break rules and then later try to get them to conform to a higher standard or guideline? We can serve two masters here. We can show our appreciation for that special gift AND we can adhere to our uniform guidelines. They do not need to be mutually exclusive. My two cents.

[qwazse]

... Given that kids learn best by example, what example do we set when we break rules and then later try to get them to conform to a higher standard or guideline? ...

That we care more for who is under the shirt than what is on it?

 

Here's the thing: a search of "mentor" or "pin" in the IG comes up with zilch. Thus some folks take that as lattitude, others see it as limiting.

 

So, what about the BSA dress uniform? Can scouters wear a mentor pin or two on that lapel?

Edited September 24, 2015 by qwazse

[BDPT00]

Trying to find loopholes in the Insignia Guide isn't what this should be about.  If a mentor pin isn't in the insignia guide, then it doesn't go on a uniform.  And if it does, where does it go?  My biggest problem with mentor pins is when the mentor shows up at a court of honor (or district, or council dinner, or wherever), and he wears 10 mentor pins, who is it all about?  If that mentor had any humility, he'd show up at and ECOH with no mentor pins.  If he gets one, it would be special, instead of just another notch on his belt.  I used to wear more stuff on my uniform than I would now.  I take my guidance from General Eisenhower.  He wore one row of ribbons.  When the occasion called for it, I'm sure he'd wear more, but the pictures we see are pretty dressed-down.  I happen to like that.  Seeing multiple pins on a collar, or a pocket flap overflowing with mentor pins is a huge turn off for me.  That's obviously a personal opinion, but I'm stickin' with it. 

[Krampus]

That we care more for who is under the shirt than what is on it?

 

Here's the thing: a search of "mentor" or "pin" in the IG comes up with zilch. Thus some folks take that as lattitude, others see it as limiting.

 

So, what about the BSA dress uniform? Can scouters wear a mentor pin or two on that lapel?

 

You see, that's the point exactly. If it is not on the guide, it goes on the brag vest/jacket. 

 

If it does not show up on the guide one should not assume they can put it where they want. That's just looking for an excuse in my opinion. When the uniform and insignia guide gets so prescriptive as to tell you how many inches a service star is from your knots, that's by design, just as omission of where to put this pin or that pin is by design. There's the temp patch area. That's it.

[oldisnewagain1]

So then I could wear my pins on my  neckerchief or neckerchief slide since they are "optional", according to the guide, and not a part of the offical uniform.

Edited September 24, 2015 by oldisnewagain1

[gumbymaster]

So then I could wear my pins on my  neckerchief or neckerchief slide since they are "optional", according to the guide, and not a part of the offical uniform.

Yes, I think you could.  Make your own Neckerchief slide that has a place for these mementos.

 

That said, at some point, when the slide becomes a distraction from the uniform itself, again we need to reevaluate the spirit of the guidelines.

 

I do like the earlier comment about coming to the ECOH w/o the prior mentor pins, it lets the recipient know that they are special, not just/mearly one more story.

[qwazse]

So then I could wear my pins on my  neckerchief or neckerchief slide since they are "optional", according to the guide, and not a part of the offical uniform.

Well, by the logic of @@BDPT00 and @@Krampus, since there is zilch in the insignia guide about pinning neckers, or fashioning neckers out of pins, or pinning bolo ties ... it is a uniform violation to use pins in that fashion.

 

To which I say ... if someone does manage to configure such an animal (I could imagine a "spiral" of pins wrapping a necker or maybe a chain-mail necker interspersed with pins), please post a pic. I would love to see it functioning.

 

By the way, I don't buy for a minute that just because an element is "optional" that it is less a part of the official uniform. Just because it is allowed to vary within a troop, once the boys clearly articulate its use for their troop -- as they should, it is a official.

Edited September 24, 2015 by qwazse

[Krampus]

If a hat or neckerchief are optional they should still conform to the standard if worn, IMHO.

[Stosh]

I do what @@Krampus mentions.  That's what the red wool jac-shirt is used for.  My mentor pins are on that along with whatever else I might fancy at the present time.

[vumbi]

Little Tommy Tucker, a wolf cub, says to Billy Jacobs, another wolf cub, "Oooooohhh, look at that. Mr. Addinsell is wearing a pin on his collar. I distinctly remember reading in the Insignia Guide that THAT is a violation of the uniform code. No need to pay attention to him anymore, he has no regard for the law."

To which Billy replies, "Yes, and look, he's not even wearing the proper socks with the uniform either, O M G!"

 

Later some parents, horrified over these outrageous violations, vote to join the unit Krampus is in. After all if one of the leaders is wearing a pin on his collar, they need to get their sons away from that bad example right away.

[Stosh]

@ya lazima vumbi

 

Well @@Krampus might have the correct BSA uniform and socks, but does he have official BSA underwear?  Did anyone bother to check that?  

[Eagle94-A1]

@ya lazima vumbi

 

Well @@Krampus might have the correct BSA uniform and socks, but does he have official BSA underwear?  Did anyone bother to check that?  

 

Don't go there. Anyone remember the official OA boxers at NOAC one year?  Then again, I wish I had gotten the OA "Toothpick Holder" when I had the chance. Alas, they sold out by the time I got to the trading post.

[vumbi]

@ya lazima vumbi

 

Well @@Krampus might have the correct BSA uniform and socks, but does he have official BSA underwear?  Did anyone bother to check that?  

 

Ha, ha, I wonder if there is even an official 'wedgie' specified in the guidelines?

 

Only the rolling doughnut knows.......

[BDPT00]

I find this pushback amusing.  We live in a society that is becoming more and more anything goes.  Yet in the grown up world, there are standards for what people wear (call it a dress code if you wish).  Businessmen and women, government officials, bankers, lawyers, clergy, morticians, etc.  When we go to a funeral, a wedding, or a business call, it's customary to concern ourselves with what we think is appropriate to wear.  Then we have uniform services: military, police, many labor positions (drivers, mechanics, food service) and medical staff (and let's not forget sports teams and some private schools).  Kids and casual wear are all over the map, and that's just fine.  Scouting happens to fall in the uniformed category.  Modifications to uniforms in other organizations are frowned upon (including penalties to go with it).  I don't understand why those who don't care about how they look find pleasure in discrediting those who do.  In recent posts, in fact, it's basically come down to name-calling and ridicule.  I don't know or care what a rolling doughnut is, but those who concern themselves with following directions shouldn't be bashed by those who take pleasure in openly ignoring them.  We're given guides to where patches and sashes go.  If I'm going to put a patch on a shirt, I'd like to put it in the correct position.  It either matters or it doesn't.  It matters to me.  Sorry I'm not up to the standards of those who think it doesn't matter or just don't care.  The argument I hear is that uniforming is the only thing the 'police' care about.  That's totally false where I'm from.  Do you have a better argument than that?  The next time you think it doesn't matter, try wearing a ragged t-shirt and flip-flops to a funeral.  Then report back to us.  I'll wait here.