Pins on Adult Uniform

[Krampus]

Little Tommy Tucker, a wolf cub, says to Billy Jacobs, another wolf cub, "Oooooohhh, look at that. Mr. Addinsell is wearing a pin on his collar. I distinctly remember reading in the Insignia Guide that THAT is a violation of the uniform code. No need to pay attention to him anymore, he has no regard for the law."

To which Billy replies, "Yes, and look, he's not even wearing the proper socks with the uniform either, O M G!"

 

Later some parents, horrified over these outrageous violations, vote to join the unit Krampus is in. After all if one of the leaders is wearing a pin on his collar, they need to get their sons away from that bad example right away.

 

Or, what happens in the real world is that Billy and Tommy start wearing ANY pin or patch they want to ANYWHERE on their uniform. Why? First, because they saw Mr. Addinsell doing it. Second, they don't know (or care) about what is an official patch versus and unofficial patch. Third, they don't understand (or care) about why Mr. Addinsell is wearing a patch/pin in the wrong place, they assume because he simply wants to.

 

What other rules or policies would you like to pick and choose to obey? This is like the people who walk their dogs without leashes in cities with leash laws because their dog obeys them. The law says use a leash but somehow they think they're above that and the law does not apply to them.

[BDPT00]

I remember back in college days when a guy from our school ended up in court because he was wearing a patch incorrectly.  It happened to be an upside down U.S. flag on the backside of his jeans.  It was his form of protest, and it didn't go over well with the uniform police.  There are limits.  Now with more liberal interpretations of our first amendment, he'd probably be ok because he was expressing himself.  Ok, yes, until he walks into the wrong bar. 

[oldisnewagain1]

Perhaps it is my age that plays tricks on this old mind but I wonder, can we really judge a Scout or Scouter by the way one wears the uniform? Does my centennial uniform hold more weight that the one I wore with Red applets. If I chose to wear the forest green with and red beret of the Leadership Corps will I be a social outcast? What if I wore the uniform worn by an American Scout of 1910? Would that be acceptable considering there wasnt an official uniform until 1913? (There was a uniform available in the 1911 first Supply Department catalog but there was no mention of the official status by the Committee on Badges, Awards, and Equipment until 1913.) Is it the offical uniform that makes the troop or the experience, learning and fun a youth takes away with them in adulthood? But perhaps my thinking is too dated and that too the words and thoughts of Baden Powell have no place in the future of Scouting. "I don't care a fig whether a Scout wears uniform or not so long as his heart is in his work and he carries out the Scout Law." 

 

Edited September 25, 2015 by oldisnewagain1

[gumbymaster]

In this way, "uniform" itself is a misnomer.

 

While the uniform is ONE of our methods for delivering the Scouting program, it is only a part of an overall stragety to achieve our aims and goals.

 

The purpose of the uniform, among other things is to give each scout a sense of belonging to a larger group, to shed socio-economic barriers so that the scouts may befriend all, and for recognition within our community of this is who we are and what we stand for.

 

If you go back far enough, the parts of the Scout uniform had a scouting purpose beyond simple appearance, whether the triangular bandage neckerchief, or the heavy duty fabric shirts and trouser, the campaign hat, the stave...

 

By Policy, we do not deny the scouting experience to a boy for the lack of a uniform, or the lack of a complete uniform.

 

By Policy, ANY scout uniform is ALWAYS a scout uniform.  In practice, a mix of modern, recent, historic, and well loved uniforms can, to some degree, render the goals of a uniform appearance moot.  Heck, in my Council, there must be AT LEAST 20 currently active and available Council Patches - great for council income and traders, but hardly giving a uniform appearance at a gathering.

 

In short, there are lots of "uniform legal" ways to stand out from the others, if that was realy one's goal.

[BDPT00]

Oldisnewagain,

One would have to look hard to fine me using the word 'judge,' and equally hard to find criticism of a Scout.  I'm talking to Scouters here.

Gumbymaster,

One would, likewise, have to look hard to find ridicule of dated uniforms.

It appears that we're trying pretty hard to find fault with the premise that it's our responsibility to set the example.  Gumbymaster mentioned that 'uniform' is one of our Methods.  Personally, I always try to keep the Aims of Scouting at the forefront, as well as trying to use the Methods.  It's not always easy, but we have a pretty simple mantra we go by ... I do my best.  In fact, I frequently raise my right hand and promise to do just that.  I would submit that that means not cutting corners or trying desperately to find ways to subvert those Methods.  The Handbooks and Guidebooks are there to help us do it.  Sometimes they probably get in the way of having some fun, but they mean well.  So do I.  

[desertrat77]

Uniform violations can be measured in two categories.

 

Disrespect/discredit is one category, administrative violations is the other.

 

Wearing a button with profanity on the shirt pocket...wearing the uniform into a strip club...etc...disrespect and discredit.

 

Wearing a council or mentor pin on a pocket flap is an administrative violation, of a uniform guide.    Whatever the issue is, it's internal to the BSA.  Externally, it doesn't bring discredit upon the BSA because the public a) is none the wiser and b) really doesn't give a hoot.

 

PS  Internally to the BSA, people are volunteers.  Not enlistees under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.   As long as no discredit/disrespect is involved, I'm of the opinion live and let live.

Edited September 25, 2015 by desertrat77

[Krampus]

So it is okay to pick and choose what things from BSA we will follow?

[desertrat77]

So it is okay to pick and choose what things from BSA we will follow?

Safety/security/legal mandates:  no flexibility, must follow for the well being of the scouts and the BSA.

Pins on shirt pocket:  an administrative issue.

[BDPT00]

Safety/security/legal mandates:  better care.

Pins on shirt pocket:  don't care.

[cyclops]

I am confident that both Krampus and BDPT00 always, ALWAYS follow to the letter every, EVERY policy and guideline that BSA has created. Am I right?

[blw2]

class B, anyone?

[Stosh]

What's a "class-B"?  

[cyclops]

Stosh, I think it is disingenuous to ask the question you just asked, "What's a 'class-B'?"

 

I say this because in a thread called "The Importance of Uniforming" you wrote the following which was Posted 18 June 2012 - 11:18 AM:

"The consensus of today is that there is only slight if no importance at all of uniforming. T-shirts posing as "Class-B" i.e. second class uniforming, Activity shirts, blue jeans and a variety of every excuse under the sun precludes the necessity of the uniform, With the message being said and the actions demonstrated, it just might be a good time to dump the uniform all together."

 

You may not remember writing that but I suspect that you DO know what he referred to as class-B.

Edited September 26, 2015 by cyclops

[Stosh]

Show me in any BSA literature where it defines what a "class-B" uniform is and I'll acknowledge it.  Otherwise it is nothing more than non-BSA clothing that someone made up and on their own and defines it as "class-B".

 

I think it is disingenuous to even suggest there even is such a thing as a BSA "class-B" uniform and mislead others into thinking there is such a thing.  It really draws the focus on one's honesty in the process.

 

So with no BSA literature to define it, no BSA recognition of such an item of uniforming and everyone thinking they "know" what it is, I'm going to once again ask the question:

 

What's a "class-B"?

 

Feel free to cut and paste BSA's definition in your response.  Thank you for your interest in this mythological item of clothing.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Stosh

[cyclops]

Show me in any BSA literature where it defines what a "class-B" uniform is and I'll acknowledge it.  Otherwise it is nothing more than non-BSA clothing that someone made up and on their own and defines it as "class-B".

 

Which is what you did in that old post. No, there is no such thing in official literature and since you seem to be of the same uniform stickler cloth as the others, and since there was no response to my question, in the face of that 'cosmic' uncertainty I will borrow from ya lazima vumbi (or whatever his name is with my thanks) and end with my admonition to all of you who never ever break or bend any BSA rules, policies, or guidelines:

"Ask not for whom the doughnut rolls, it rolls for thee"