Changing a Troop's Culture, Balancing Boy-led versus Adult-led

[Eagle94-A1]

I know it is a very big deal. I knew going into this decision how important the troop is to the church. One reason why I wanted to talk to the SM and my friend the ASM/CM about it.  I know first hand how important the relationship with the CO and units are, I do not want to damage that.  The Church's  relationship with the pack and troop is one of the reasons why I am glad my son picked the troop.

 

All day I have been thinking about typing a letter, rescinding the offer to be SM, and emphasizing that I am formally relinquishing my job as a committee member and will serve as an ASM. Which I thought was done already back in June, but apparently wasn't.  My goal is to take care of the Scouts.

 

On a positive note,  the BORs went well. 2 PLs are now Tenderfoot, one of the Scouts I had since 1st grade also is Tenderfoot, and Oldest is  Second Class. AND he may be able to finish up the last requirement for First Class, cooking 3 meals on a single  camp out and have his BOR by Holloween. Apparently the SM also didn';t realize it was a single camp out, and had been signing off after they had done a breakfast, lunch, and dinner.  And the Tenderfeet  did a great job.

[Sentinel947]

I'd wait. Let things play out. The Church will either say yes, or they'll say no. If your Troop is more of a community troop, than they'll probably say yes. (Community=they don't restrict the troop to just church members.) 

 

[pargolf44067]

@@Eagle94-A1, I am probably stating the obvious here, but I tip my hat to you. From the posts on this thread, you truly care about the boys and making the troop as good as you can.  The fact that you are willing to do whatever you can to help the boys and the troop become truly boy led just amplifies this.

[Eagle94-A1]

Thanks for the responses. I admit I got 4 selfish reasons for doing what I do :  my Second Class Scout, my Webelos Cub Scout, my Wolf Cub Scout, and Payback. First 3 are obvious, but there is no way in Hades that I can pay back to the leaders how much their time, energy, and care meant to me. Closest is continuing their legacy.

[cchoat]

two weeks ago, I had this out with my troop committee, who were upset that as Scoutmaster, I wasn't "leading the boys" (sitting in the troop meeting, teaching basic scouting skills, leading the game, etc)  I once again had to explain the aims and purposes of Scouting, and the role of the scoutmaster in the troop to no avail, they knew better because in the troop in the next town, the adults run the show and the kids all advance in lock step.   

 

At the committee meeting, I sat through 30 minutes of parental venting.  After that, I tossed an extra Scoutmaster patch on the table and dared them to pick it up and do the job.  Needless to say, no one made a move toward it. 

 

I am conducting for the third year in a row, Troop Committee training to teach them.  Maybe this time they'll understand.

[Krampus]

@@cchoat, @Eagle94-A1: Had a similar comment from a highly active ASM. Wanted to know if we were just baby sitters. Have not addressed the comment yet. Want to know what's driving the thought process. I suspect they might want to see more organization or coordinated involvement (already tons) from the ASMs. Not sure.

[cchoat]

@@cchoat, @Eagle94-A1: Had a similar comment from a highly active ASM. Wanted to know if we were just baby sitters. Have not addressed the comment yet. Want to know what's driving the thought process. I suspect they might want to see more organization or coordinated involvement (already tons) from the ASMs. Not sure.

The problem is that the parents in my troop committee are confusing thier Cub Scout experance, where the adults did everything and the boys just showed up and got a badge, for Boy Scouting, where the boys are supposed to run the show.  I have several NYLT older scouts who are trying thier best to lead the troop and I have to constantly explain to the parents why I am not "doing" anything.  It's what they don't see that they don't understand.  That's why i signed them up for the troop committee, and started training them.  If after imparting knowledge they still don't get it, the patch is still on the table, because i don't want to be a Super Cubmaster.

[Eagle94-A1]

Update: still waiting to hear form the troop committee about my offer. No worries though. I'm there for the Scouts no matter what.

 

HOWEVER I'd love to strangle the SPL at the moment   I've been workign with him for a while now. I've given him some advice,gave an example of how a meeting should look like when he asked for help with backpacking, talked about planning and communication, etc. For the past month, the meetings were supposed to focused on T-2-1 Scoutcraft skills, and instead have focused  solely on knot tying. It's driving some of the scouts nuts. I talked to him last week, suggested doing other things besides knots, and offered to bring some supplies I had to help him with the meeting. No response. I brought the stuff just in case. Glad I did because he he wanted to do knots again! Some of the Scouts saw what I bought and asked if they could work on that instead.

 

When asked what the plans were for the upcoming trip, he said he hadn't made any since he wasn't going. Long story short, I had a discussion with him and the acting SPL this weekend, then sent them and the other adults an email with some suggestions and links to ideas on how to have fun, while working on advancement. Chatting with a friend who wasn't at the meeting that nite, he said the older Scouts are so use to the SM telling them what to do, that when they have the freedom, they don't know what to do.

 

It's a slow frustrating change. Funny thing is, the adults, even the old SM is on board with them taking over. It's the Scouts who seem to not want to take over.

[Krampus]

The problem is that the parents in my troop committee are confusing thier Cub Scout experance, where the adults did everything and the boys just showed up and got a badge, for Boy Scouting, where the boys are supposed to run the show.  I have several NYLT older scouts who are trying thier best to lead the troop and I have to constantly explain to the parents why I am not "doing" anything.  It's what they don't see that they don't understand.  That's why i signed them up for the troop committee, and started training them.  If after imparting knowledge they still don't get it, the patch is still on the table, because i don't want to be a Super Cubmaster.

 

I have a few folks like that. It took a while to get to the root of their "issue" with the boy-led process and the perceived lack of input/activity from the SM. We found the following with our parents:

• They understood boy-led, they just struggled with when adults should step in. Some felt adults should step in sooner to teach, instruct, advise. Took a while of them observing to see how the "old guys" did it.
• There were some good ideas they had about resolving their leftover Cub Scout Parenting/Leader nerves. We assigned them as MBCs or teaching the Scout Instructors. This allowed them to "get their teaching/control fix" without impacting the boy-led process. It also helped them to understand the boys can actually do so much more than they (the new parents) think.
• We invite them to PLC and have them monitor how it works. They see very quickly that the boys CAN manage without the parents.
• We held unofficial adult happy hours (sans uniforms) to discuss ways adults can get involved without poisoning the whole boy-led approach. Special projects, helping to identify new locations for camping, new activities, getting trained to support, etc.

Not sure if this helps but it sure helped us. We basically found out that they were very active adults who were frustrated at not feeling useful. After discussing with them ways they could get involved but still maintain the boy-led focus, we all found our happy place.

 

Yes, we have to revisit this every year when new parents come in, so we've made it part of our new parent orientation.

[Krampus]

HOWEVER I'd love to strangle the SPL at the moment   

 

Only had one of those in the last 8 years. He lasted six months. The boys were glad he moved on.

[Stosh]

Update: still waiting to hear form the troop committee about my offer. No worries though. I'm there for the Scouts no matter what.

 

HOWEVER I'd love to strangle the SPL at the moment   I've been workign with him for a while now. I've given him some advice,gave an example of how a meeting should look like when he asked for help with backpacking, talked about planning and communication, etc. For the past month, the meetings were supposed to focused on T-2-1 Scoutcraft skills, and instead have focused  solely on knot tying. It's driving some of the scouts nuts. I talked to him last week, suggested doing other things besides knots, and offered to bring some supplies I had to help him with the meeting. No response. I brought the stuff just in case. Glad I did because he he wanted to do knots again! Some of the Scouts saw what I bought and asked if they could work on that instead.

 

When asked what the plans were for the upcoming trip, he said he hadn't made any since he wasn't going. Long story short, I had a discussion with him and the acting SPL this weekend, then sent them and the other adults an email with some suggestions and links to ideas on how to have fun, while working on advancement. Chatting with a friend who wasn't at the meeting that nite, he said the older Scouts are so use to the SM telling them what to do, that when they have the freedom, they don't know what to do.

 

It's a slow frustrating change. Funny thing is, the adults, even the old SM is on board with them taking over. It's the Scouts who seem to not want to take over.

 

So what are the PL's doing while the SPL is running their patrols?

 

I've never had a problem with an SPL because I've never had more than 3 patrols and that position was not needed.

 

If I were SPL I would simply ask the PL's what their plans were for their patrols and if there was anything I could do to help.  If not I would stand around with the SM waiting for a PL to need some help of some sort.  For me the SPL is there because of what he knows, not what he can do.  Take care of your boys.  The SPL's "boys" are the PL and when does he find time to take care of them when he's doing their job for them?

[Eagle94-A1]

PLs #1 and #3 were teaching knots, with a few others one nite, then another nite they had their Tenderfoot BORs.

 

Unfortunately PL#2 is in a situation that if dad doesn't have him the nite of a meeting, mom won't bring him. So he only comes every other week. Not a good situation.

[Stosh]

PLs #1 and #3 were teaching knots, with a few others one nite, then another nite they had their Tenderfoot BORs.

 

Unfortunately PL#2 is in a situation that if dad doesn't have him the nite of a meeting, mom won't bring him. So he only comes every other week. Not a good situation.

 

PL1 and PL3 must be new boy patrols?  "with a few others"  don't they have patrols of their own?  Where's their PL?

 

PL2 needs to be replaced with a functioning PL.  Sorry, the patrol shouldn't have to suffer because of one boy's situation.  Otherwise the APL3 needs to start functioning because he's responsible for taking care of his PL, he's the PL's right hand man and he's not doing his job.

 

If SPL is doing the leading and the PL's and APLs are non-functional, a review of what the patrol-method is needed.

 

Each boy before he takes a POR needs to be honest up front as to whether or not they can handle the responsibility.  If they can't they should be doing a special project assigned by the SM for advancement, not disrupting the troop operations with a poor performance.

 

What did the SPL do to help out patrol #3 with their shaky leadership situation?  Probably too busy working on useless meeting agendas?  

 

Need the boys to focus on getting the troop operational on the patrol method structure of some sort and having PORs functional.  THEN one can go on to bigger and better.  If the base is crumbly, the rest of the structure is going to be weak. 

[Eagle94-A1]

PL1 and PL3 must be new boy patrols?  "with a few others"  don't they have patrols of their own?  Where's their PL?

 

Actually only PL3 is the new Scout patrol leader. Pl1 is the "older Scout" PL. He's been in 3 years now and just got Tenderfoot. He hasn't cared about earning rank until Philmont. Now he's focused on First Class. And he may get  2nd and 1st in a few weeks.

 

PL2 needs to be replaced with a functioning PL.  Sorry, the patrol shouldn't have to suffer because of one boy's situation.  Otherwise the APL3 needs to start functioning because he's responsible for taking care of his PL, he's the PL's right hand man and he's not doing his job.

 

It's a situation I do not like, but the Scouts are adapting. APL does a very good job and may get PL next election.

 

If SPL is doing the leading and the PL's and APLs are non-functional, a review of what the patrol-method is needed.

 

Agreed.  BUT playing Devil's Advocate, I too am coming to grips with NSPs. Troops I've been in, except one very briefly, had always been mixed aged. HOWEVER I think the next troop guide, if he is appointed in the POR that is, will do a better job of working with the NSP and it's PL.  Yeah, my son has stated he thinks the NSP needs help and want to work with them when he gets First Class in two weeks.

 

Each boy before he takes a POR needs to be honest up front as to whether or not they can handle the responsibility.  If they can't they should be doing a special project assigned by the SM for advancement, not disrupting the troop operations with a poor performance.

 

That's the thing, only 3 Scouts are First Class and need a POR to advance.  Other than that we got 2 Second Class Scouts, 4 Tenderfeet, and the rest Scout.

 

What did the SPL do to help out patrol #3 with their shaky leadership situation?  Probably too busy working on useless meeting agendas?  

 

Don't go there!    He hasn't even worked on meeting agendas.

 

Need the boys to focus on getting the troop operational on the patrol method structure of some sort and having PORs functional.  THEN one can go on to bigger and better.  If the base is crumbly, the rest of the structure is going to be weak. 

 

Agree 100%  In fact the situation is somewhat worse. Don't know  who selected the APLs, and troop level PORs, only 1 the QM is doing a somewhat decent job.

[qwazse]

Honestly, @@Eagle94-A1, you're doing a fine job. Any knit-picking is for other newbies in the room.

...

That's the thing, only 3 Scouts are First Class and need a POR to advance.  Other than that we got 2 Second Class Scouts, 4 Tenderfeet, and the rest Scout.

 

Keep in mind that only Life scouts need PoR's. Sometimes it's better to give a bunch of scouts specific projects, and let the offices go to who the boys in the respective patrols decide they want to follow. There's no reason why a boy with Scout rank couldn't be a PL.