Getting inexperienced leaders up to speed faster

[desertrat77]

Not only do backwoodsmen/women avoid the BSA, but also the "outdoor-minded."  

 

Let's say an adult doesn't have a backpacking or camping background.  But they are expert rock climbers, or kayakers, or trapshooters, and the like.   Or maybe they don't have a background but are willing to learn.  Either way, they are otherwise fit, smart, adventurous, enthusiastic, civic minded.

 

These folks are exactly what the BSA needs.  But they stay away from the BSA in droves.  Joe Bob precisely outlined why.

Edited September 9, 2015 by desertrat77

[Eagle94-A1]

Someone mentioned IOLS training and folks not knowing a specific knot. IMHO, part of the outdoor training problem is the "one and done" mentaility the IOLS syllabus promotes. Sorry, but you learn the skills and need to PRACTICE them. 

 

One of the things trainers need to learn IMHO is to the resources in a training group if at all possible. That might be a challenge, finding out who has prior knowledge, skills, and abilities prior to a course. BUT it can make a BIG impact.

 

I had two extremely knowledgeable individuals I used as staffers for ITOLS, but never took the course. Having them sit through a course they knew would be a waste of their time. Someone who's an Eagle and done Philmont twice, and another Eagle who is prior military and is prepping for Philmont has the basic T-2-1 outdoor skills taught in ITOLS.

 

BUT getting them to staff it. WOW. That got them motivated.They taught the skills they specialize in, and were able to work one-on-one in other skill areas. Heck even using the students I didn't get the paperwork for until the day before the course were utilized. Utilizing those with skills made the course more meaningfull, and less a waste of time.

 

I try to avoid having situations like my BALOO class, where it was a waste of time. 

[desertrat77]

Someone mentioned IOLS training and folks not knowing a specific knot. IMHO, part of the outdoor training problem is the "one and done" mentaility the IOLS syllabus promotes. Sorry, but you learn the skills and need to PRACTICE them. 

 

One of the things trainers need to learn IMHO is to the resources in a training group if at all possible. That might be a challenge, finding out who has prior knowledge, skills, and abilities prior to a course. BUT it can make a BIG impact.

 

I had two extremely knowledgeable individuals I used as staffers for ITOLS, but never took the course. Having them sit through a course they knew would be a waste of their time. Someone who's an Eagle and done Philmont twice, and another Eagle who is prior military and is prepping for Philmont has the basic T-2-1 outdoor skills taught in ITOLS.

 

BUT getting them to staff it. WOW. That got them motivated.They taught the skills they specialize in, and were able to work one-on-one in other skill areas. Heck even using the students I didn't get the paperwork for until the day before the course were utilized. Utilizing those with skills made the course more meaningfull, and less a waste of time.

 

I try to avoid having situations like my BALOO class, where it was a waste of time. 

Eagle, this is the way it should work, BSA-wide...kudos!

[Stosh]

As everyone knows, I have a boy-led program, but being a new troop, I have no older boys to teach.  So I teach the basic skills.  It's rather interesting how many of the parent/leaders in the troop who normally sit in the back of the room and talk quietly among themselves will creep up to the group of boys and sit quietly and learn what the boys are being taught.  Some have gone so far as to even ask questions on the topic being taught.  It would seem that the desire to be outdoors is not limited to the boys.

 

So, with newbie adults, where's my pool of backwoods people to lead the boys out into the woods and know what they're going?

[ianwilkins]

As everyone knows, I have a boy-led program, but being a new troop, I have no older boys to teach.  So I teach the basic skills.  It's rather interesting how many of the parent/leaders in the troop who normally sit in the back of the room and talk quietly among themselves will creep up to the group of boys and sit quietly and learn what the boys are being taught.  Some have gone so far as to even ask questions on the topic being taught.  It would seem that the desire to be outdoors is not limited to the boys.

 

 

That is your pool of future leaders right there. keep fishing, keep baiting the hook, and you should be able to reel the odd one in.

[Stosh]

That is your pool of future leaders right there. keep fishing, keep baiting the hook, and you should be able to reel the odd one in.

 

It takes about 7 years to develop a good BOY scout, if the parents took 7 years to develop into a good ADULT leader, they would be leaving just about the time they would be able to take over.     Ever wonder why BSA doesn't allow Eagle Scouts to be SM's for 3 years after they age out?  Maybe they know something about how well the program provides or doesn't provide these skills.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Stosh

[perdidochas]

It is when we think that there is some pre-requisite to being a leader that we turn people off.  Seriously, how many of you would welcome a leader who was used to organizing and leading Cub Scout events, had never been a Boy Scout himself and who took a 20 pound 8 person tent and an inflatable air mattress on campouts?  My son's Troop did.

 

I'd have no problem with the above, provided that evolution of his equipment occurred over time.  My first trip with my sons' troop (of which I'm now an ASM), I had a 10 lb tent, and slept on a cot.  Since then I've evolved to a hammock with a tarp, but I actually think it's best for an adult leader to start with what they have, and to change based on what they see the troop doing. 

[blw2]

I think this goes back to something I posted a while back....

The need for "One Program"

 

When i mentioned that before a few folks got there back up a little.... well what work in one geography doesn't work in another.... stuff like that...

 

I don't mean it down to that granular of a level....

I don't mean to say that all troops in the nation should be taking a canoe trip the 3rd week of September....

 

What I mean is a more simple outline and guidline of the program...

one that does not take hours to read and several training courses to certify....

one that would encourage consistency from unit to unit

a simple program

one that is easy to understand

one that is not really open to interpretation and adult sillyness.

 

as an example I'll point out patrol method boy led.... how many interpretations of that do we here have on that oe really simple idea?

How many variations do we see in it from unit to unit?

 

I'll bet if you took say 4 of the most seasoned scoutmasters here on the forum and let them brainstorm for less than an hour, they could come up with a half page bullet list that would clearly define a boy led troop that uses the patrol method as BP designed it....

I wouldn't even be surprised if GBB or someone hasn't already done it.... documented clearly and concisely.

 

Now put that into a training session that takes no more than maybe 3-5 minutes tops to view, and we're all on the same page

All presenting a much better program for the boys that's consistent from one troop to the next.... don't add to it, don't take away.

Then the only variable between troops is the boys, and what they choose to do!

 

It's the same on the cub level.

 

I don't know... I'm likely over simplifying and undercutting the time it would take..... but that's my idea.

[vumbi]

In response to the 'How To' aspect of this thread, what we've done (in addition to the usual training stuff from BSA) is to involve the new leaders in outings that have experienced leaders present. The 'mentoring' that occurs in that 'hands-on' manner is far superior to the training, in my humble opinion. I am also sympathetic to JoeBob's observation but that whole 'ole-boy' thing can be simply avoided. The problem with the approach I just described is that it depends on having those experienced leaders available.

Absent that, it would be more difficult to get them up to speed faster. But even then, hands-on experience would still be valuable.

[qwazse]

Several of you touched on it: people like to feel useful while they are being trained. If they are in camp with their scouts just on the opposite end of the field, they are more relaxed, more willing to ask questions, loaded with relevant questions, in no hurry to rush out, in an environment conducive to practicing. They just did double duty: hauled scouts and gear to a campout and picked up skills.

 

That boy-led tutorial ... what if it involved a step 1: "observe the boys in the patrol due north of us for one hour, point out what you see in terms of servant-leadership, come back by tea time and we'll discuss."?

 

Who in their right mind would rather do a power-point?

[JoeBob]

You better be able to define 'Servant Leadership' in 3 sentences or less.

[Stosh]

You better be able to define 'Servant Leadership' in 3 sentences or less.

 

Take care of your boys!  

[qwazse]

You better be able to define 'Servant Leadership' in 3 sentences or less.

Do you want those in bullet points entering stage right or stage left?

[JoeBob]

Do you want those in bullet points entering stage right or stage left?

Okay, I deserved that.

 

My chagrin over an answer for 'inexperienced leaders' dropping into BSA Speak is what prompted my post.

 

"The SM and ASPL are out back with the QM right now, so the SPL will go ahead and start the PLC.  Oh, that's a meeting where all the PLs and other PORs plan things for the troop.  Sometimes an ASM will sit in if he's leading a trip.  We had to boot a Jazzm because he kept trying to take over.  Or you could observe the committee; the CC and COR are using TMW to re-charter."

 

We need a translator to go with an animated knot tying app for new guys. 

 

 

Why isn't the Senior Patrol out looking for hot 12th grade girls?  Sounds like unfocused Senior Patrol leadership to me...

[Hedgehog]

It's rather interesting how many of the parent/leaders in the troop who normally sit in the back of the room and talk quietly among themselves will creep up to the group of boys and sit quietly and learn what the boys are being taught.  Some have gone so far as to even ask questions on the topic being taught.  It would seem that the desire to be outdoors is not limited to the boys.

 

So, with newbie adults, where's my pool of backwoods people to lead the boys out into the woods and know what they're going?

 

I think they are right there in front of us.  On campouts, I take the time to talk to the new parents and find out what their interests are.  I've found that anyone who has interests in the outdoors or exercise -- from hiking, to skiing, to biking, to running -- are always up for the challenge of learning new skills.  We often get the idea that we have a lock on knowing the skills.  Why not ask some of the parents to learn the knots and then teach them to the boys - splitting the boys into two groups with each group learning a different knot and then having each group of boys teach the other group?  Why not have a speaker in to talk about backpacking gear to the boys -- you will be surprised how many parents listen in and take notes.  Each year I do a backpacking gear presentation for the Webelos and new Scouts -- ymost parents sit in the back and listen.  Who doesn't like buying new toys to use in playing outside? If we make the program exciting for the boys, it becomes exciting for the adults.

 

I'd have no problem with the above, provided that evolution of his equipment occurred over time.  My first trip with my sons' troop (of which I'm now an ASM), I had a 10 lb tent, and slept on a cot.  Since then I've evolved to a hammock with a tarp, but I actually think it's best for an adult leader to start with what they have, and to change based on what they see the troop doing. 

 

First Boy Scout campout used a 5 pound two person tent.  Then bought a 2 pound 2 person backpacking tent.  Then bought a 4 season tent.  Then bought a hammock and tarp (used that all last week without the tarp since the weather was so nice).  Then bought a tarp that can be set up as a tent using treking poles.  

 

I have an "article" that I wrote on gear and provide a list of recommended equipment (updated each year) to new scouts and adults crossing over.  We are in the process of replacing the current Eureka troop tents with lightweight backpacking tents to reflect a focus on lightweight backpacking.