blw2 Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 yeah, I suppose church youth groups deal with it all the time too, but on a more limited basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 *Public Displays of Affection, don't know if that's a common acronym in the USA! Yes, we have that one too. In the one Venture crew that I am familiar with (but not directly connected with), I believe there have been two female members, ever, and they were both daughters of the Advisor, not to mention three of their brothers were also crew members at various times, so that may at least partly explain why I never heard any stories of any relationships or other activity of that sort within the crew. The phrase "not on OUR watch" comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 @@Hedgehog, I like the plan. Enjoy it. ... My son sees the girls he is friends as just another friend -- they all share some common interests and then there is the catagory of what he calls "girl things" -- like hair, make-up, etc.... There is something to be said for having spent a weekend or two with a young woman before she decides to date your son! Yes, PDA is discussed in Venturing. It's fairly amusing. If you've got a crew of freshmen, they'll draft a bunch of regulations that they'll later come to regret. yeah, I suppose church youth groups deal with it all the time too, but on a more limited basis. It does depend on the group. Growing up, ours spent a lot of time together ... as much as scouting. Most of us went to the same school, so we looked forward to weekend retreats. Mostly it was cabin camping. When it was tents, they borrowed the troop's gear. We built a lot of trust, just like a well-oiled troop does when the boys finally figure out leadership and integrity. So, we did a lot of stuff (mission trips, visit jails, etc ...). I could see us being trusted in large numbers on our own for a day (check-in at breakfast, dinner, and lights out). My kids' youth group .. not so much. Different schools, lots of newbies, etc ... So my kids use what they learned in scouting to make outings run smoothly. Anyway, I couldn't imagine our church tolerating much more than a 10:2 adult:youth ratio. However, I've seen other groups pull it off. But I think I steered us away from the point. What we are asking kids to do (e.g. the pic's from National with adults never too far away), is something that in the due course of time many will no longer see the point in doing. One of the images that needs to be part of the national promotion is the SM and ASM making for the nearest coffee shop while the boys plan an overland excursion to procure forgotten pierogies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwilkins Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Talking to explorer leaders (14-18) they obviously see more of it. But again they deal with it on a trust basis and it works. I'm one of them, yes, I won't shy away from it, we've had issues, but nothing insurmountable, and in perspective, we have as many of the standard problems getting chores like washing up done to a standard. It really depends on the explorers you have at the time. We not infrequently have boys and girls sharing tents. Usually I'm talking about, say, 8 all mucking in together in a big tent, before you think I'm some sort of degenerate, I would draw the line at a boy and a girl couple sharing a two man tent. That said, we had a hike competition, and we had a team of 5, 1 girl, as it was March, and temperatures approaching zero, I didn't want her in a tent on her own, so she went in with two of the lads, who she was friends with anyway. I did tell her mum, and her mum said "if the boys try anything, she'll set them straight soon enough". But I think the point is, she was friends with them, through explorer scouting, and S E X doesn't raise its ugly head, they're just mates, they would be offended and confused take we this assumption that as soon as our backs were turned they'd all be getting naked and doing "stuff". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 @@ianwilkins, thanks for pointing out how much the BSA micromanages the simplest decisions a leader can make! We would do well to understand that some of our Youth Protection stipulations are based purely on image and not substance. But ... To clarify the adventure ... "Temps approaching zero" that would be centigrade, right? Zero Fahrenheit, I tend not to worry about youth sleeping because things are as dry as they are cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwilkins Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 @@ianwilkins, thanks for pointing out how much the BSA micromanages the simplest decisions a leader can make! We would do well to understand that some of our Youth Protection stipulations are based purely on image and not substance. Well, I've been told I'm wrong, that boys and girls sharing is against the rules, it is not true (in the UK). Or even if it's not against the rules, that I shouldn't do it anyway. I've had parents reckon there'll be mass orgies as soon as our back is turned, If memory serves I think I managed to bite my tongue and didn't say this said more about them and their opinion of their child than anything else. On a practical level, on a weekend camp, we've had them in big tents, mixed up, and they either change in the toilets, or in sleeping bags, or tell all the boys to get out while they change, and vice versa. It gets sorted practically anyway. I like to treat my explorers as if they are a bunch of friends, it seems to work mostly. After all, a scout is morally straight right? And "trustworthy, ...courteous...clean" so how would sharing a tent be a problem? You are right though, image is still important, the wrong parent gets the wrong end of the stick, and the wrong image can be portrayed, the jungle drums take over, and you've got a situation on your hands. As a final point, it's not so different to a single sex provision, after all, you could have a single sex couple in your unit. Of course, I'm inured to the whole thing, I've been in mixed scouting since aged 15, and that was some time ago. @@ianwilkinsBut ... To clarify the adventure ... "Temps approaching zero" that would be centigrade, right? Zero Fahrenheit, I tend not to worry about youth sleeping because things are as dry as they are cold. Sorry, yes, forgetting the units differ, 0 centigrade, 32 Fahrenheit. [looks up what 0F is...-18C] It would be a rare event to get down to zero F if you weren't in the wilds of Scotland or up on the Yorkshire Moors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick_in_CA Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 We would do well to understand that some of our Youth Protection stipulations are based purely on image and not substance. True, a lot of the BSA's rules are actually safety theater. They are not designed to make the kids any safer (some even make kids less safe - like the new YPT electronic communication rules), but to show that the "BSA is serious about safety". Like so much in modern life, image trumps reality. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentinel947 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) True, a lot of the BSA's rules are actually safety theater. They are not designed to make the kids any safer (some even make kids less safe - like the new YPT electronic communication rules), but to show that the "BSA is serious about safety". Like so much in modern life, image trumps reality. Those electronic communication rules also create some hilariously stupid scenarios if your aged out Scouts hang around as Adult volunteers in the program. Edited October 13, 2015 by Sentinel947 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProScouter06 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I'm for it But I'm leaning towards the idea that there would be different dens in Cubs for the girls, and different patrols for the girls in scouts. They would come together and interact for unit level things. I feel like this is needed to give the boys times that they can be boys and the girls likewise.... this being based on the idea that they will act differently when together. All sorts of other ideas cloud my thinking on it though..... would there need to be different standards for the girls? Different focus in their requirements to better appeal to their interests and needs? I tend to agree. Girl and boy dens and taking that further, patrols in a scout troop. Having options to even have coed patrols after a certain rank or age. Having coed leadership has not taken away from scouting IMO, how different would coed scouts be? Public schools, many town/county/city day camps are already serving all kids. I can't help but think that going coed could be the way to bring scouting into the forefront of youth movements in the USA. I hate to think that the BSAs best days are behind us. I would often get questions from parents at scout rallies asking if cub scouts was coed. I'd be told that mom was bringing the daughter to one activity and dad and son to another. I've heard from so many parents many many times how counterproductive that was and how nice it would be to have both kids in one all encompassing activity. In today's busy world with endless activities I wonder if have a coed scouting program would not only grow the movement but also strengthen it by creating a more inclusive family program. Of course it would be different, it would mean change, it would take time to adapt, but maybe it would be great. Another member said that this was more an issue of when over if. From folks I know at the national service center, that's probably a correct assumption. But we don't hear much about this topic from the top. Quick story. I remember being a scout and doing a 50 miler on a trip in West Virginia. One day on the trail we stopped to take a break and a Girl Scout troop passed by. Their packs were heavier and their pace was faster than ours. I remember we were all impressed, and of course being teenagers our goal was to catch up to meet them. A few days later we finally got back to the base camp and enjoyed their company. Of course we never caught up to them on the trail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blw2 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 OK, a side question How would the organization's name be handled? BOY Scouts of America just doesn't work for this...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 If it's co-ed, it isn't Boy Scouts of America anymore. Name it anything you want. Kids in the STEM Lab works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham_solo Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) OK, a side question How would the organization's name be handled? BOY Scouts of America just doesn't work for this...... That is an easy one. You follow what they did in the original boy scout group. Lord BP's scout organization was called "The Boy Scout Association", they just changed their name to "The Scout Association". So I would suggest the BSA, change to something similar like "US Scout Association". People get all uptight about these sort of issues, but in reality they are not a big deal. BSA, just needs to go live with UK Scouts for awhile and learn what they do, they have decades of experience at running a very successful co-ed scout program that is growing better than ever since they did go co-ed. ALL of these questions and problems people bring up, I guarantee you that the UK Scouts have probably already dealt with them by now. Edited October 15, 2015 by dhoover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambridgeskip Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 ALL of these questions and problems people bring up, I guarantee you that the UK Scouts have probably already dealt with them by now. Some of them. A lot of them we found they weren't a problem in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 If one were to name it something else, the general public would view it as a new and different organization.... which of course it would be and would need to re-market itself as a new identity. BSA would cease to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walk in the woods Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 OK, a side question How would the organization's name be handled? BOY Scouts of America just doesn't work for this...... When the Future Farmers of America branched out from their farming roots to general agribusiness they just changed the name of the organization to FFA. The Boy Scouts of America could just change their name to BSA and let it go at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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