New req vs old...How new does a badge have to be?

[LauraT7]

I have a quandary -

 

I know that if there is a "new" and an "old" version of a badge out there, that a boy should

 

1 - use the new badge requirements if he has not already started the badge

 

and

2 - if he HAS already started the badge, he may finish under the old requirements OR choose to follow the new, but he can't 'mix & match' requirements.

 

OK - so here's my problem.

Sat, Feb 7, I am supposed to teach/ lead the 'Communications' badge for a merit badge college our district is running. As I am looking on the internet for worksheets, I discover that the badge has been REVISED as of Jan 2004! It's not a whole lot different - they scrambled some things, made a few more choices, more computer options, and took away one and added one requirement each.

 

But no one has worksheets for these (so I made my own, no biggie) No one in our area, so far at least, knew about this change, and I don't think the council has the new badge books in - I KNOW no troops have them yet!

 

there is another counselor teaching the SAME badge at MBOD. She wants to stick with her old materials. Originally, my plan was to use her stuff so ALL the boys would get the SAME stuff at the same time.

 

But now my gut is telling me that I SHOULD do the 'NEW' version, despite not having all the materials yet....

 

What would you do?

 

help!

laura

[LauraT7]

PS - i don't know if it matters - I forgot to mention that the classes are running three saturdays - over 6 wks -

Feb 7, Feb 21, Mar 6. so the books 'might' be out by the time we finish - or not.

[eisely]

Even lacking the new MB books, I would go with the new requirements. Your council may not honor the badges. If worse came to worse, I would reschedule the whole thing. I would not risk a boy being deprived of his Eagle down the road if somebody at some level decides that an Eagle required badge was never properly earned.

[evmori]

I don't think you have a choice. You have to use the new requirements. Remember, we can't add or subtract from the requirements & using anything BUT the new requirements would be doing so.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Fat Old Guy]

There's the rub, Ed. Sometimes, finding out what the current requirements are can be difficult. Middle of last year, I went to get a copy of the requirements book and found that the Scout Shop had none. What to do?

 

Often the merit badge pamphlets don't have the current requirements. We know that the handbook doesn't. Are we supposed to use unofficial web sites for our information?

 

 

[Bob White]

Hi Laura,

In order to keep the explanation clear we need to define the terminology. The "badge" has not changed, the "requirements" to complete the merit badge and earn the badge have changed. The badge is the recognition for doing the requirements, it is not the work itself.

 

The rules say that whatever requirements version the scout has started with he can continue to use, whether the recently revised version or the previous version.

 

So if the scouts in the course have already begun work on the earning the merit badge they can use the previous version that they started with, if they have not begun yet they should use the revised version.

 

What you need to do is check with national supply or your local BSA service center to see if the new version is available yet. If it is, I would teach those requirements. If it is not I would be prepared to teach the version that the scouts have access to, and do an over view of the other version.

 

Do not worry about worksheets, few merit badges if any require that the counselor provide such materials. It is best as a counselor to evaluate what tools best suit the topic and the learning skills of the scout. Use the methods and tools that will be the most effective in teaching and coaching the specific learner.

 

[suem859]

Laura,

where did you find the revision date for Communications? I'm a counselor for that badge, too, and will probably be offering it in the spring.

 

Thanks in advance,

SueM

[Mike F]

Sorry for fanning the flames in an old discussion, but I'm confused.

 

When we discussed a Winter Camp that awarded MBs that we know for a fact were not completely earned (they skipped some requirements), I was told that the troop couldn't overturn the signature of the approved, certified MB counselor. (There was other discussion about how the troop could work with the guys to help them complete everything for their own conscience and integrity, and how we should go about reporting the discrepancy up through the chain, but the bottom line was if the MB counselor signed it, it was done.)

 

I agree that they should use the latest requirements, but whats the difference here? If the approved counselors sign off that the MB is complete regardless of which version theyre using isnt it complete in the eyes of BSA?

 

[Fat Old Guy]

If we look at the blue card we'll see "demonstrated to my satisfaction that he has met all the requirements . . ."

 

If a counselor signs a blue card knowing that the Scout hasn't met the requirements, I'd argue that the blue card is fraudulent and void.

[mk9750]

Laura,

 

My hope is that I'm not embarassed by sticking my neck out here, but I am doing so from memory, so please excuse me if I'm wrong.

 

I looked up the requirements for Communications MB at Meritbadge.com and what they are showing look like the same requirements with which have worked as a counselor for this badge since 2002. What has changed?

 

Mark

[Eamonn]

I am not going to harp on about how much I dislike these Merit Badge add any name you want.

That being said.

If the Scouts have started working on this already they can use the "Old" Version. If they are just starting you have to use the "New" Version. The other person also has to go with the new version. No ifs ands or buts. As this is a District function you would do well to have a word with the Advancement Chair.

Eamonn

[shemgren]

The "Boy Scout Requirements" book, no.33215 has been updated as a 2004 edition. This lists the new requirements.

 

Merit Badge.com seems not be updated since 2002.

 

The following MBs have been changed:

 

Archery

Basketry

Collections

Communications

Dog Care

Electronics

Emergency Prepardness

Fingerprinting

Horsemanship

Model Building and Design

Music and Bugling

Nature

Oceanography

Orienteering

Personal Management

Railroading

Reading

Salesmanship

Textile

Woodworking

 

(This message has been edited by shemgren)

[Bob White]

Each year since 2000 the BSA has been in the process of either revising or re-writing the requirements for every merit badge. This process is scheduled to end at the end of 2005. In January of 2004 the BSA announced the latest revisions and re-writes. The communication MB was one of the ones completely rewritten. Until the manual is in circulation in your council the Scouts can continue to use the requirements found in the current BSA publications.

 

After the new requirements are published scouts and MB counselors will have to follow the new requirements, unless the scout has already begun work under the present requirements. In this case the scout has a choice, he can finish under the old requirements or begin over under the new ones. What the scout (and the MB counselor) cannot do is a mix of requirements old and new to complete the maeri badge work.

[KA6BSA]

A few years ago at our Council's Scout Fair event there was a merit badge booth for Home Repairs. The counselors there were just lining up the boys asking them "Have you ever done this or that" and went down a long list of fixing household stuff until they said the requirements were met. It was really very superficial with no proof of anything and most of the boys caught on right away that if they just said "Yes" to everything for ten minutes they would get a very easy badge. Our Scoutmaster figured that out too and later when the boys brought their blue card to him he refused to honor it. At the time I didn't know what his real authority was in the matter but it seemed like the right thing for him to do not accepting the blue cards. The same Scout Fair there was a Fingerprinting badge booth and having only two requirements it was also very easy (and fun). But since the counselors there were really having the boys do the fingerprints, meeting the requirements and learning the material, the SM gladly accepted those blue cards. It wasn't that Home Repairs was too easy, it was that it didn't seriously meet the requirements that the SM would not honor the blue cards.(This message has been edited by KA6BSA)

[LauraT7]

Once again - my scouter friends have pointed the way and given me direction for my answers.

 

I found this information origially by going to merit Badge.com and then confirmed it with the Scouter site - both of which showed revisions for Jan 2004. The 'workbooks' on the site, naturally, have NOT been updated, because they are written by volunteers like you and me - so when someone updates one for a class and submits it, they'll adopt it, I'm sure.

 

I went to the council office today - the revised merit badge pamphlets are not out yet, but the 2004 requirement books are - and the changes are in there. That tells me the changes ARE "OFFICIAL BSA". I bought a book. However, no one IN the office at the time, could give me a concrete answer as to which version to use. Their attitude was that it really didn't matter, it was so new, why bother?

 

 

Meanwhile, the director of this Merit Badge Opportunity Days (MBOD) and the other instructor for this badge, are telling me to go ahead and use the old stuff. The director says she checked with the District Advancement Chair, and he doesn't see a problem with using the old requirements. MBOD opens saturday, and we have over 250 boys registered - all 1st Class and above, all the badges are Eagle Required badges.

 

As far as Communications goes - a summary of the changes is that they took out one req, added another, and scrambled the rest. they also added some options to some relating more to computers. So the old worksheets would work - even if they are out of order, with the addition of that one new requirement.

 

So.... since the workbooks are probably already printed and assembled - i will use that material.

 

BUT - I have asked to have the new requirements (2 pages) copied for me in a quantity to give out to the boys in my classes - to add to their folders - and I will make sure they know of the changes and additions, and i will teach the NEW revisions.

 

There may be a few boys who have already started the badge prior to the change - but the vast majority of the 50-60 boys in my three classes will be starting fresh.

 

However, since many of the communication badge requirements are covered by standard 8th grade speech class (the 5 min speech, selling a product with visual aides) and computer class (creating a brochure with desktop publisher) - I also don't have a problem with the SM back-dating the blue card so that the boys have a choice as to WHICH set of requirements they use. I'd be glad to counsel both versions - I just don't want a boy to be punished for a mistake in dates/ requirements that the ADULTS couldn't settle!

_________________________________

 

That takes care of ONE problem.

 

the other is that my son, and about 10 of our troop boys are also signed up for these badges.

 

Emergency Prep has TONS of revisions for Jan 2004 (that is one my son is taking, as well as quite a few boys in our troop) and Personal Management is completely re- written - it's now about 3 pages, much more detailed in the items that remained.

 

I don't want ANY of our boys to be shorted on badgework - especially EAGLE badges. Our troop IS now aware of the changes, but as someone pointed out - if another badge counselor chooses to sign off a badge as being 'completed' or, refuses to teach the new version because they don't want to re-work their materials, what can we do about it?

 

laura