Path To Save Bsa?

[NJCubScouter]

If one is worried about boogie men, they might want to check out the sex offender database and see how close one of those people live.  I would almost bet they are a lot closer than people would expect.

That's a good point. And "they" are banned from Scouting, and rightly so.

[mashmaster]

I'm wondering if he worrys that kids might be around gay people if kids go to the mall, or the theater, or a renaissance faire, or a restaurant, or school??

I think some people think the world is made of people that act and believe just like them but who knows.  

[Eagledad]

It's entertaining to me that this role modeling stuff seems to go right over your heads. Studies have shown that kids who come from divorced homes are more likely to divorce when they become adults. Kids who are around smokers are more likely to smoke and kids who come from homes of drug users are more likely to use drugs. Is that so surprising? Roll models do have an effect on those who observe them in one way of the other. One can't prevent our kids from being exposed to all people who exhibit dangerous behaviors, but most parents try. Now I can understand that many believe homosexuality is normal by birth, but to many others homosexual acts are not normal by birth and are very dangerous behaviors.

 

Barry

[DigitalScout]

It's entertaining to me that this role modeling stuff seems to go right over your heads. Studies have shown that kids who come from divorced homes are more likely to divorce when they become adults. Kids who are around smokers are more likely to smoke and kids who come from homes of drug users are more likely to use drugs. Is that so surprising? Roll models do have an effect on those who observe them in one way of the other. One can't prevent our kids from being exposed to all people who exhibit dangerous behaviors, but most parents try. Now I can understand that many believe homosexuality is normal by birth, but to many others homosexual acts are not normal by birth and are very dangerous behaviors.

 

Barry

 

Absolutely: Parents model behavior that their children typically adapt.  But sexuality is a characteristic like eye color and height, not an adapted behavior.  Studies have shown that children raised in gay parent homes are no more likely to become gay adults than children raised in heterosexual parent homes.  Sexuality is not a learned or adapted behavior like smoking.

 

 

[Gone]

Absolutely: Parents model behavior that their children typically adapt.  But sexuality is a characteristic like eye color and height, not an adapted behavior.  

 

Really? Because there is evidence that abuse, alcoholism, etc., are also tied to inherited behavior as you suggest sexuality is. HOWEVER, the scholars mostly agree that it is also a learned set of behaviors.

 

I have seen nothing that definitively proves sexuality is an innate characteristic or behavior.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Bad Wolf

[Eagledad]

Sexuality is not a learned or adapted behavior like smoking.

 

No, but many young adults go through times in their lives where they are very mixed up and might try things in their struggles. The community is supposed to protect our kids during these times by holding a generalized expectation for our youth, but we live in times now where anything goes. Didn't the Girls Scouts just admit a 6 year old cross dresser or something like that? My personal opinion is that situation is bad parenting and the community shouldn't role acceptance of it. 

 

Those who spend time in the bible will tell you that there is a lot said about the boundaries of sexuality because it is a very powerful force. It wouldn't take much for someone very confused about their life to be mislead.

 

Barry

[NJCubScouter]

It wouldn't take much for someone very confused about their life to be mislead.

That applies to all kinds of behavior though, doesn't it? We are all role models. I have children, and most people assume that I am the natural parent of those children, and they are correct. People see that I am married to someone of the opposite sex. They may (correctly) draw conclusions about how those children came into existence, even if I never talk about my personal life, which I don't. But doesn't that make me a "heterosexual role model" anyway? A confused teenager might be "misled" into thinking they are ready for that kind of activity and end up with a child they aren't ready for, with serious impact on their future life. Barry, I think you have written about this yourself. So maybe the focus needs to be on the fact that adult activities, regardless of what they may be, are for adults. I believe there is something in the Scout Handbook about that, or at least there was at one time.

[Gone]

Didn't the Girls Scouts just admit a 6 year old cross dresser or something like that?

There was one five years ago. Just a matter of time before this happens in Boy Scouts.

 

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/crossdressing-7-year-old-boy-allowed-to-join-girl-scouts

[mashmaster]

It's entertaining to me that this role modeling stuff seems to go right over your heads. Studies have shown that kids who come from divorced homes are more likely to divorce when they become adults. Kids who are around smokers are more likely to smoke and kids who come from homes of drug users are more likely to use drugs. Is that so surprising? Roll models do have an effect on those who observe them in one way of the other. One can't prevent our kids from being exposed to all people who exhibit dangerous behaviors, but most parents try. Now I can understand that many believe homosexuality is normal by birth, but to many others homosexual acts are not normal by birth and are very dangerous behaviors.

 

Barry

I don't want my scouts modelling any sexuality learned in scouting, hetero or homo.   To me it is a non-scouting issue.  We have parents that smoke or drink but never at scout functions....

[Eagledad]

I don't want my scouts modelling any sexuality learned in scouting, hetero or homo.   To me it is a non-scouting issue.  We have parents that smoke or drink but never at scout functions....

You only have to see a gay pride parade to understand that is a sexual issue.

 

Being identified as gay or homosexual is an automatic tag of sexuality. A SM who is a known KKK member doesn't have to say a word about racism to be publicly tagged a racist. A SM who is a doctor may never say a word about his private life, but because of his reputation, he would likely be called on first with an injury during a troop activity. Our reputations are very much part of role modelling.   

 

We risk our kids everyday by the roll models they interact with. As parents, it behooves us to protect our kids from being influenced by people who model behaviors we believe are dangerous. Just because we may not feel some behaviors are risky doesn't mean we shouldn't respect those parents who do. 

 

Barry

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

You only have to see a gay pride parade to understand that is a sexual issue.

 

And Mardi Gras shows that having straight male leaders is a sexual issue.

[Gone]

And Mardi Gras shows that having straight male leaders is a sexual issue.

 

Are you talking Fat Tuesday in the CBD? Or are you talking ANY Mardi Gras parade? Because 95% of the crewes and parades are pretty darn tame. It's Fat Tuesday and specific parades that are the more flamboyant ones.

 

I haven't been to any gay pride parades so I cannot say whether they are mostly like Barry says or not. But Mardi Gras is a bad example if you are comparing all of the parades in total versus just Rex or Endymion or Zulu or a specific one.

[mashmaster]

You only have to see a gay pride parade to understand that is a sexual issue.

 

Being identified as gay or homosexual is an automatic tag of sexuality. A SM who is a known KKK member doesn't have to say a word about racism to be publicly tagged a racist. A SM who is a doctor may never say a word about his private life, but because of his reputation, he would likely be called on first with an injury during a troop activity. Our reputations are very much part of role modelling.   

 

We risk our kids everyday by the roll models they interact with. As parents, it behooves us to protect our kids from being influenced by people who model behaviors we believe are dangerous. Just because we may not feel some behaviors are risky doesn't mean we shouldn't respect those parents who do. 

 

Barry

Barry, 

  You and I will never agree on these points.  I have gay friends, grew up around gay people, and and happily married with 3 kids raising them the best I can.  I have never been to a gay pride parade and they haven't had them around me so I don't really have a chance to see them if I wanted to.  But I refuse to generalize a group of people like you are doing.  Comparing gay to KKK is very odd to me.  (I refuse to go there)

  I wish you well in your scouting experience with your son and I you are able to insulate him from everything you see as evil in this world.

 

Yours in Scouting

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Are you talking Fat Tuesday in the CBD? Or are you talking ANY Mardi Gras parade? Because 95% of the crewes and parades are pretty darn tame. It's Fat Tuesday and specific parades that are the more flamboyant ones.

 

I haven't been to any gay pride parades so I cannot say whether they are mostly like Barry says or not. But Mardi Gras is a bad example if you are comparing all of the parades in total versus just Rex or Endymion or Zulu or a specific one.

 

Hey, if Barry wants to judge all gays by whomever offends him the most in a gay parade, I'll do the same for straights using Mardi Gras.

 

The fact that you objected shows how stupid it is to do either one.

[Stosh]

I think the point being made is the tendency to stereotype by association with what is perceived in general.

 

KKK membership gives people an impression of militant racism against a number of ethnic and even religious groups.

 

Black Panther and even NAACP gives people an impression of militant racism going the other direction.

 

Tea Party - ultra conservatism

 

LGBT - sexual deviation from the "norm".

 

It's a game everyone plays one way or the other.  To even declare a person a racist does in fact identify oneself as such as well.  While I am not a racist, (my family consists of people of Asian, African and European descent), because I happen to be white, I have been declared a racist on various occasions.  Guilt by association, plain and simple.  

 

I generally don't take serious comments of judgement like these because the logic leaves a lot to be desired.  

 

Big people talk about ideas.

 

Middle people talk about things.

 

Small people talk about other people.