John-in-KC Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) BSA made Weekend Edition...Link to sory Edited August 3, 2015 by John-in-KC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Another story. That's $10m gone if they leave only counting BSA dues. Can't imagine how much BSA loses in FOS donations. I'd imagine at least another $5-10m. Hope those other donors that left come back, otherwise BSA is going to hurt for money. http://www.sltrib.com/home/2778130-155/if-mormons-leave-scouting-bsa-will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-in-KC Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 For Utah, here are the big and true questions: 1) Will there be LDS adults who love Scouting at the point where they re-roll to ordinary charter, vice the mandatory LDS charter? 2) What are the logistic impacts of merging Councils in Utah? 3) What is the impact on National of a $10M revenue hit (assuming $100K per position, 10M pays for 100 professionals). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 For Utah, here are the big and true questions: 1) Will there be LDS adults who love Scouting at the point where they re-roll to ordinary charter, vice the mandatory LDS charter? 2) What are the logistic impacts of merging Councils in Utah? 3) What is the impact on National of a $10M revenue hit (assuming $100K per position, 10M pays for 100 professionals). One can "love Scouting" and still break off to support their church, their faith and their ideals AND be involved in a scouting program. The decision to leave does NOT mean anyone doesn't "love Scouting". The $10m loss should hit hard nationally looking at their 2014 report. I suspect that's a drop in the ocean compared to the LDS FOS donations which, according to BSA, accounts for upwards of 45% or more of council revenue in Utah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Not sure why, but I wasn't able to get the audio to play? I have a very dear and close friend who was a Roman Catholic, came to the States to work as a camp counselor and converted to become a member of the LDS Church. He remained active in Scouting in the UK even after they made their policy on gay scouts and leaders clear. However when a openly gay man was made District Commissioner, he became very unhappy and not long after married a female member of the LDS Church and moved to Utah, where he became active in the BSA. I have not as yet had the chance to talk with him, but he is a Facebook friend. He posted on his page that he wasn't very happy with the change in the BSA. - I must admit that I wasn't surprised. He also posted a link to a newspaper in Utah. Most of the comments were about the LDS starting their own youth organization. Some people posted that the loss to the BSA might be so big that the BSA might go under. However what really struck me as being odd was that more then half the comments were about how expensive it was to keep and outfit a Lad in Scouting. I was expecting more then people complaining about the price of a uniform shirt. I know very little about the LDS Church. We only have one LDS Church near where I live. They of course do have Scouting units but they are in another District My only dealing with the Troop was some years back when my boss invited me to her sons Eagle Scout COH. I'd never been in a Mormon Church before. It was a small complex with lots of different rooms and a basketball court. The presentation was in the church and I was really taken with the strong feeling of family and closeness. Have to say that I was very impressed and left feeling warm and fuzzy -Maybe the cookies and punch helped? I have at times questioned the outdoor abilities of some LDS leaders but both the church and the BSA share a long history and my feeling is that any form of a split would be a shame. Eamonn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert12 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) Using numbers from December 31st, 2013, and assuming 5 paying adults from each unit, the total loss would be over $16 million. Unit liability fee used to be called the charter fee. Edited August 3, 2015 by robert12 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 @@robert12, any idea how much the average LDS family contributes to FOS? I have heard in Utah the amount is around $50 or more/year. That could be a sizeable loss if that dries up as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Registration fees are a drop in the bucket. And, they are nearly offset by reduced needs for services. FOS could be a big deal if those who need program are disproportionately represented by non-LDS. What's lost? Community. As a scout I had an MBC from the LDS, his troop and ours worked on several projects together. Some folks here report that LDS units are aloof. And that's somewhat true because they spend time preparing older boys for missions. But they've joined our district in helping our crew place memorial day flags. If they are off the district roster, will they get that memo? If there is an LDS rift, will there be as many units who support permissive sexual ethics to fill it? I heard from one Mormon who would like Trail Life to extend a hand to "social trinitarians" of their sort. I don't see it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 LDS supports our district to the tune of allowing use of their facilities for district events. If that goes away I am not sure any other CO will step up and be as open as the LDS have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I find the NPR story (at least the transcript, I did not try to listen to the video) a little strange because it does not even mention the local option. If you didn't know what the BSA had actually done, you would think that LDS troops were being required to appoint openly gay adult leaders, which they aren't. The newspaper article does mention the local option, but basically dismisses it because some people have questioned whether it is legal defensible. I find all of the panic over the legal status of the local option to be very premature. It has been in effect for seven days. Nobody has made any legal challenge to it yet. Why do some people seem ready to give up without a fight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I find all of the panic over the legal status of the local option to be very premature. It has been in effect for seven days. Nobody has made any legal challenge to it yet. Why do some people seem ready to give up without a fight? The LDS church seems to be a bit miffed at 1) BSA moving faster than they said in May, and 2) the timing of the change coming without and any discussion with who amounts to be the largest share-holder in the organization. No business worth their stock would make a decision about future direction without first having in-depth conversations with their largest member. This may just be the straw that breaks the came's back as far as LDS is concerned. The bigger question is, why does there have to be a "fight" in the first place? BSA seems to be trying to bend over backwards to please one group while not considering the repercussions of their actions. They are hardly prepared for what they (BSA) have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walk in the woods Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Why do some people seem ready to give up without a fight? Because the choices are: 1. Fight and be drug through the mud as a hateful, homophobic, backward, narrow-mind, religious bigot. 2. Drop Boy Scouts and move on. It's a short decision tree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I am surprised people are surprised by all this, it has been discussed for years. Two things that we all knew, or most of us, was that the BSA was going to loose membership when they changed their policy to accept gays because that is the result of every scouting youth organization in North America. The second fact we have discussed and knew was a risk was that the LDS might leave. As for the panic, well NJ, go ask the cake bakers about that. We have been discussing that issue a long time as well. NJ, you didn't really believe the gays were going to accept those terms did you? I would, it doesn't accomplish a thing in their goal for gay behavior to be considered normal. Cross dressing is next, how far will it go is the question. I know that the Law and Oath will have to change to be acceptable to the New World Order. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Why do some people seem ready to give up without a fight? It's simple, they're pissed off. Honestly, we are always making decisions because there are no perfect organizations. I have to make a decision as well. I seriously doubt if my CO will allow gay adults and my religious beliefs are to let them join. At the same time my CO is the only facility in town large enough to hold my troop. So, do I start tearing things apart, moving, and just making a big time stink? Or do I just keep working with the boys, like I've been doing for a very long time and ignoring the parts I don't like? This gets even more crazy because it seems to me that it's going to be a very long time before a gay adult would want to be a leader in my troop (they're going to likely come up through cub scouts first, just like all the other scouters in my troop). If a gay adult comes up to me next week and says great, now I want to join and help, I'm going to very politely say no way and not just because my CO will likely say no and not because he's gay. I've had enough issues with clueless adults that I'd never let someone just join on a whim. I like the Japanese approach of taking a long time to develop a relationship before signing any deal. When it becomes a problem for my troop I'll make a decision. Until then it's just not worth my effort. I can see how people will be unhappy with my decision. A lot of people are unhappy with decisions I make. They can always help out and then I'd be more likely to listen to them. After a wonderful weekend backpacking I once again realized it always has been and always will be about the boys. The BSA will not fold. It will likely get smaller in the short term and nobody knows how much, but I'll still have a chance to work with the boys. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalScout Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 No business worth their stock would make a decision about future direction without first having in-depth conversations with their largest member. This may just be the straw that breaks the came's back as far as LDS is concerned. The BSA has been having this discussion about gay members for years, if not decades. The BSA executive board is well aware of the LDS position that they don't want any gay leaders and the latest decision is a compromise to accommodate religious COs who don't want to disallow gay leaders, such as LDS. Like the Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians and Anglicans/Episcopalians, the LDS members have been putting a lot of pressure on the LDS leadership to be more tolerant. LDS has been running a big campaign to reach out to their gay members and the gay community at large. It would seem that breaking from the BSA over the new gay leader policy would be a step backwards for the LDS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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