Minimum Age For Senior Patrol Leader?

[Gone]

No age, we require NYLT, which has a First Class and 13 stipulation so I guess that's a de facto minimum.

 

We require it for SPL too. Usually never have to waive it.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Bad Wolf

[perdidochas]

Is there a minimum age that should be set for Senior patrol leader?

 

Ours is only 13 and he's fairly short so theirs no way any of the boys his age or older are going to "lookup" so to speak to him. He has alot of trouble getting the boys to do things. The previous one was 15.

 

What do you all think?

We don't have an age requirement. We have a rank requirement--Life (if we have enough Life Scouts to have an election), or Star.  We theoretically would go down to First Class, but haven't had to. We have had several successful Star SPLs, as well as the usual LIfe SPLs. 

[fred johnson]

 

Is there a minimum age that should be set for Senior patrol leader?

No age or rank requirements.  Expectation that the scout will give it his best effort and is willing to learn and grow.  SMs job is to mentor the new SPL.

 

 

SPL is selected by the PL's

 

Interesting idea.  I like it in many ways.  I don't like it in others.  I need to think about this.  

 

Positive is that each patrol gets an equal vote.  You don't have a large patrol out-voting a smaller patrol.  As such, it could be more fair.

Positive is that it reinforces the role of a patrol leader and the role of the patrol leaders council.

 

Negative is that it could move the selection of SPL into a more back-room approach like the old politics of 100 years ago.

Interesting idea though with merit.

Edited July 30, 2015 by fred johnson

[eagle77]

 

 

No age or rank requirements.  Expectation that the scout will give it his best effort and is willing to learn and grow.  SMs job is to mentor the new SPL.

 

 

 

Interesting idea.  I like it in many ways.  I don't like it in others.  I need to think about this.  

 

Positive is that each patrol gets an equal vote.  You don't have a large patrol out-voting a smaller patrol.  As such, it could be more fair.

Positive is that it reinforces the role of a patrol leader and the role of the patrol leaders council.

 

Negative is that it could move the selection of SPL into a more back-room approach like the old politics of 100 years ago.

Interesting idea though with merit.

 

 

  Hence the name Senior Patrol Leader. As a scout for 5 years this was how our SPL was selected. This kept PL on there toes. Of course back then, at least in my troop the scouts had the control of their troop. New SM new policies. All of a sudden all kinds of elections going on at different times of the year. Little by little you could just feel the adults pulling more and more of the program into their area and away from the scouts.

[Stosh]

The reason we do it with the PL's selecting the SPL is based on servant leadership principles.  In my troops the highest ranking position is the PL (patrol method).  The APL's assist the PL's with concerns related to the patrol's operations.  The SPL assists the PL's with concerns related to the other patrols in the troop.  What we have found is that if the PL's are selecting the SPL's they are going to pick someone who will actually assist them in working things out between patrols.  Having everyone select that person means the PL's have to settle for whatever happens.  Well, they "out rank" the SPL so to speak so they get exclusive say in who it is that is going to be working things out among the PL's.  

 

What I have found out from how the boys work this out is very interesting.  First of all, all PL's serve at the pleasure of their patrol members.  They can be replaced in a heartbeat and they know it.  They work really hard to keep that #1 spot.  Contrary to most troops I have observed as a UC, the APL's (don't even get credit for holding the position) are a pretty useless position.  They "fill in" for absentee PL's.  Well, not in my troop.  Instead my APL's do all kinds of things to make their PL's look really good.  They are the PL's right-hand man and knows just about as much of what is going on as the PL.  When the PL is away from the patrol for a PLC meeting or whatever, the APL is just as capable of running the patrol.

 

So, now it's time to select a new SPL who is aging out, stepping down, or not doing the job..... The PL's get together and start deliberations.  First of all none of the PL's want to step down from the #1 position of PL, so who's the most natural pool of leaders?  THE APL's OF COURSE.  They tend to haggle over who's got the best assistant that knows his job and is always there ready to help.  Who would be the best assistant to help with inter-patrol concerns other than the best APL in the troop?

 

It is for this reason, I can very comfortably stay out of the boy's back-room politics and somehow end up with some pretty good leadership in the troop.  The "loser" PL is the one who has to now train up a new APL from within his patrol.    I've never heard any complains about that process either.

 

Our elections for SPL and PL tend to be heavily focused on functionality.  If the boys can't do the job they are replaced.  This isn't a punishment/negative thing, it just means they weren't ready to take on the responsibility.  Many times the replacing PL will select as his assistant the former just deposed PL.  It gives the former PL a chance to learn from the new PL and help make him even better (and lo and behold, who's in line for consideration for SPL?)  

 

It is really interesting sitting back and watching these political dynamics work out in the troop and patrols.  I think a lot of the popularity vote junk just isn't something my boys want to deal with.  If elected, you get a chance to show 'em whatcha got!

 

As far as a general election for the SPL, which patrol really wants to give up their PL if he's good and if he's bad, that's not such a good choice either for the troop.  Nope, let the PL's handle it.  They're the ones who have to live with their selection.

[Stosh]

Just curious.... what is it about NYLT that makes it something necessary for the traditional management SPL to have?

 

I have had only one boy take NYLT and he was in the troop when I took over.  He confided in me that my boy-led, patrol-method teaching along with GBB training gave him more usable training than NYLT. 

[Eagle94-A1]

NYLT is  "THE" thing to do right now. It's the youth equivalent of WB21C.

[PA Scoutmaster]

Our boys have decided that nobody can run for SPL or PL unless they have earned the rank of Star.  The SPL selects his ASPL and the ASPL needs to be at least Star.  The PLs select their APLs and the requirement is at least First Class  That pretty much places the age at around 13 for minimum.  However, our elected SPLs have always been patrol leaders before running for SPL.  For the past two years and for next year our SPLs are 10th graders.  I would prefer 11th graders because the SPLs in our troop have their work cut out for them with four patrols of 12 scouts and monthly outings.

 

I prefer not to have minimum age/rank requirements. In my experience, 11th grade is the worst time to be SPL because of the AP classes that most of our kids take, as well as all of the activities they are involved with. Junior year is crucial for college bound students. If the troop elects and 11th grader and he wants to serve, that's fine with me, but I find the younger ones typically have more time and energy to put into scouting. We do ask SPL's to take NYLT either before the election, or immediately after. Our elections take place just before NYLT. 

[Stosh]

NYLT is  "THE" thing to do right now. It's the youth equivalent of WB21C.

 

Yes, I know, but that doesn't answer my question...

[PA Scoutmaster]

Just curious.... what is it about NYLT that makes it something necessary for the traditional management SPL to have?

 

I have had only one boy take NYLT and he was in the troop when I took over.  He confided in me that my boy-led, patrol-method teaching along with GBB training gave him more usable training than NYLT. 

 

Honesty, I think it's more the experience of meeting and working with kids from other troops than the course itself. Kids that come back from NYLT are excited by the experience and we have had good results from it. That may not be the case everywhere, but it works for us.

[Stosh]

Fair enough, but if that was all one was interested in there are other less expensive ways of building networking among the boys than NYLT.