Mormons Will Re-Evaluate Relationship With Bsa

[Sentinel947]

If a Catholic boy wants to join an RA Chapter then that is possible and ok. The one thing I would tell any parentjoining an RA Chapter is the boys will be taught about missions (taking what the Bible says about salvation to people of the World) and being a missionary from the Bible. We wouldn't beat kids over the head about doctrine just sharestories about missions. The program also involves physical fitness, sports, outings for fun and camp craft.I've never talked about Trail Life.

Part of what makes me ok to put my children in the BSA in the future would be its non sectarian approach. I don't trust Trail Life or any other avowed "Christian" organization to not peddle their brand of Christianity. Considering the historical beliefs of many Protestant groups about Catholics, and Churche's ability to start youth groups, that will be where I put my children if the BSA is no longer an acceptable option. If my parish didn't have a youth group, I think Scouting has equipped me well to start one if necessary.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Sentinel947

[Gone]

 

Do I know where the official rule is? No.. But there was enough buzz on forums around it, and I believe at the time the official rules where presented in the forum, that I know that this statement is true.

 

Yeah, forum "buzz" would not be the smoking gun I'd believe. Besides, given the vote yesterday and the amount of money the LDS has, I think that's enough to make TLUSA reconsider if that (anti-mormon) was truly their position.

[Fehler]

From http://www.traillifeusa.com/generalfaqs

 

Could a non-Trinitarian denomination such as Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses charter a Trail Life USA Troop?

Non-Trinitarian denominations do not participate in our program because our specific Statement of Faith adheres to Trinitarian doctrine.

[Gone]

 

From http://www.traillifeusa.com/generalfaqs

 

Could a non-Trinitarian denomination such as Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses charter a Trail Life USA Troop?

Non-Trinitarian denominations do not participate in our program because our specific Statement of Faith adheres to Trinitarian doctrine.

 

 

We shall see if money talks. If TLUSA wanted to allow the LDS to rebrand their own version of TL, now would be the time.

[Peregrinator]

Part of what makes me ok to put my children in the BSA in the future would be its non sectarian approach. I don't trust Trail Life or any other avowed "Christian" organization to not peddle their brand of Christianity. Considering the historical beliefs of many Protestant groups about Catholics, and Churche's ability to start youth groups, that will be where I put my children if the BSA is no longer an acceptable option. If my parish didn't have a youth group, I think Scouting has equipped me well to start one if necessary.

I saw someone post on the NCCS facebook page recently that in some heavily-Evangelical areas, Trail Life leaders are "uncomfortable" with Catholics.

[walk in the woods]

Last I knew, they would happily accept LDS youth, but LDS adults could not be leaders...  They don't consider them true Christians because they don't believe in the holy trinity, there was mention of them following not only the Bible but also the "Book of Mormons" that make them not true Christians.. Trails life will take youth from all denominations but they will only accept true Christians as Adult Leaders..

 

A forum I visited on this subject had an LDS mother on the forum wanting to change to TL, but upset and not understanding the fact that they did not see her religion as Christian.. The contempt for the poor lady by the members of TL was surprising.. I would think if the women was at all open minded on the subject, she should have walked away having experienced what it is like for homosexuals after walking a mile in their shoes.

 

Do I know where the official rule is? No.. But there was enough buzz on forums around it, and I believe at the time the official rules where presented in the forum, that I know that this statement is true.

TLUSA has a Trinitarian Statement of Faith for their adult leaders and charter organizations.  My understanding is that is doctrinally different from the LDS teachings.  http://www.troopca0007.com/troop-values/statement-of-faith--values.html

 

Curiously, their answer regarding youth membership is more open for youth regarding faith than the BSA.  http://www.traillifeusa.com/generalfaqs

 

As far as the LDS leadership, the document I linked above says,

8.5 Calling Adult Scouting Leaders

Worthy adults, whether members of the Church or not, may be called to serve as Scouting leaders.

[David CO]

My guess is that LDS is no longer thinking "national."  They're thinking "international."  The USA isn't the only country to change traditional Scouting principles.

 

I think LDS may be thinking of petitioning for its own Boy Scout organization within the Scouting Movement.

 

The Catholic Church would actually be in a better position to do this than LDS.  The Vatican City is already recognized as a state.

[T2Eagle]

Since no one else mentioned it, I am posting the link for the National Catholic Committee on Scouting Response. http://www.nccs-bsa.org/pdf/letters/NCCS%20Statement-150727.pdf

 

We Catholics seem to be OK with it.

 

“The resolution also affirms the chartered organization’s right to select its unit leaders based on its religious principles, rejects any interference with that right, and provides that local Scout councils will not interfere with chartered organizations’ rights in this regard. It is not entirely clear how these rights will be squared with previous policy changes the Boy Scouts have made, or how they will work in practice, but it appears that the resolution respects the needs of Catholic chartered organizations in the right to choose leaders whose character and conduct are consistent with those of Catholic teaching."

 

To me the most important part of the statement is in the concluding paragraph:

 

“If you are like us, you joined Scouting to make a difference in the lives of others. Our youth don’t want to leave Scouting. Catholic Scouters like you are still very much needed. Let’s continue this important journey together and pray for the future of Scouting! Thank you for all you do to promote Scouting as Catholic youth ministry!â€

Edited July 28, 2015 by T2Eagle

[Gone]

Since no one else mentioned it, I am posting the link for the National Catholic Committee on Scouting Response. http://www.nccs-bsa.org/pdf/letters/NCCS%20Statement-150727.pdf

 

We Catholics seem to be OK with it.

 

If by "ok with it" that they understand BSA's need to make a decision and that Catholic units will be allowed to set their own policy consistent with our beliefs, then yeah, I agree.

 

If by "ok with it" you think the Catholic church is going to start allowing gay leaders, then I think we read that document very differently.

[walk in the woods]

I saw someone post on the NCCS facebook page recently that in some heavily-Evangelical areas, Trail Life leaders are "uncomfortable" with Catholics.

 

There are at least some Catholics that seem fine with TLUSA, http://www.catholictrail.com/.  I notice this entry on their committee page:

 

Richard Mathews

Richard Mathews is the General Counsel for Trail Life USA and the former legal advisor for the National Catholic Committee on Scouting Executive Board He is an Eagle Scout and is the former General Counsel of the Boy Scouts of America, where he served for 11 years. Richard is an attorney focused on ministry non-profit corporations and employment law in Texas and serves as the general counsel for Trail Life USA. He is a member of the Michigan and Texas Bar Associations and is also admitted to practice before the United States Supreme Court and the Federal Courts of Appeals for the Fifth and Sixth Circuits. Richard earned his law degree at the Drake University School of Law in 1983. He also earned a Master of Laws degree in Employment and Labor Law from Wayne State University in 1993. He received his undergraduate degree in political science and philosophy from the University of Michigan in 1979. Richard serves on the Board of Directors of Human Life International and is a member of the Association of Corporate Counsel, the St. Thomas More Society, the Cardinal Newman Society, the Christian Leadership Alliance and the Knights of Columbus. He and his wife, Laura, have been married for 30 years and active in parish life at St. Maria Goretti parish in Arlington, Texas.

[Peregrinator]

The Catholic Church would actually be in a better position to do this than LDS.  The Vatican City is already recognized as a state.

Such organizations already exist.

[Gone]

The UMM, who oversee BSA in the UM church, have made a statement (of sorts), but it looks like they will discuss it at their Board of the General Commission on United Methodist Men in August.

[desertrat77]

It's either ballsy or stupid to get rid of 70% of an organization which is bleeding members already. I'm going with the latter. BSA has never been known to make smart business or membership decisions.

Bad Wolf, I'm inclined to agree that National is more stupid than ballsy, 99 percent of the time.   But there is one grey cell bothering me...remember when National announced The Banishment of Evil Supersoakers Rule, For The Prevention of Everyones' Self Worth?   Well, Irving PR releases that announcement, and everyone pounces on it.    And rightfully so.   A nannyish, silly, New Age knee jerk rule.    Only the lawyers are happy.

 

Then a day or two later, National releases the script of Mr. Gates' speech, which indicated that pro-choice was on the way, etc.   Not much of a blip on the media radar.   Seems that after everyone expended all of their energy on the water gun issues, enough attention had been paid to the BSA, and moved on to the next shiny object.

 

Did the PR department actually think ahead and plan it that way?   They may have.   Granted, when it comes to long-term incompetence and cluelessness, Irving's PR department and the IT shop are neck and neck.  

 

Either way, I agree, the BSA is hardly a model for sound business, or valuing the people that actually make the organization rule--the scouts and volunteer leaders.

Edited July 28, 2015 by desertrat77

[skeptic]

As one of those volunteer leaders, almost 45 years now, I have grown very tired of the constant media circus that distracts from my just doing Scouting.  If this lessens that chaos and clamor, I am all for it.  As I have noted many times, this is really nothing new.  It is just something no one paid much attention to before around 1990, as the "local option" was already in force with little interference beyond the local areas.

 

The difference is the media and ability of crazies to interject panic and paranoia into the issue, as well as the political machines.  Meanwhile, the general public are turtles hiding in their shells until something forces them out.  

 

IF you truly value the basic tenets of Scouting and want to make it available, then you stay and work it and simply do your best to keep the stupidity and yellow press out of it if possible.

[Gone]

Did the PR department actually think ahead and plan it that way?   They may have.   Granted, when it comes to long-term incompetence and cluelessness, Irving's PR department and the IT shop are neck and neck.  

 

 

I have a friend in their IT division. He said it was happenstance. They (PR Dept) did not know what Gates was going to say.

 

 

 

IF you truly value the basic tenets of Scouting and want to make it available, then you stay and work it and simply do your best to keep the stupidity and yellow press out of it if possible.

 

 

Funny, those wanting change could have done the same thing, right. So somehow those who oppose the change if they don't do as you suggest don't somehow value the basic tenets of scouting? That's a big double-standard don't you think?

 

At some point change affects your personal beliefs and you may need to vote with your feet, yet still uphold the basic tenets of scouting dearly.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Bad Wolf