Is Local Option An Illusion?

[Sentinel947]

Why would you trust an executive of a competing organization? Non story. Scare tactics.

[Gone]

100,000 units? BSA has not seen that many units in a long while.

[Sentinel947]

Bad Wolf, he said membership, not units. I think his assertion is perfectly reasonable. If TL is the BSA alternative, than it should be growing more than 5,000 this year. Especially after this decision.

[Gone]

I believe he said units. Looks like the word units. My point stands, BSA hasn't seen a 100k units in a while.

 

BSA gets left with what out of 100,000 units?

 

[MattR]

If you look at the page referenced, there are about 75,000 units chartered by religious organizations, about 10,000 from civic organizations, and about 7,000 related to schools. 92k units by my rough adding. There are 38,000 LDS units but they seem to have small units (11 kids per unit).

[walk in the woods]

If you look at the page referenced, there are about 75,000 units chartered by religious organizations, about 10,000 from civic organizations, and about 7,000 related to schools. 92k units by my rough adding. There are 38,000 LDS units but they seem to have small units (11 kids per unit).

LDS units might be small because they break the boys up by age.  Per http://www.scouting.org/About/FactSheets/operating_orgs/Latter-day_Saints.aspx, 12 - 13 YOs are in a Troop, 14 -15 YOs are in a Team and 16-18 YOs are in a crew.  The referenced page doesn't break out type of unit, so if the boys are evenly distributed by age, that might make 33 boys/ward kind of breakdown for Boy Scout aged youth.  They also appear to run a smaller Cub program with just 8 - 10 YOs. 

[Gone]

If you look at the page referenced, there are about 75,000 units chartered by religious organizations, about 10,000 from civic organizations, and about 7,000 related to schools. 92k units by my rough adding. There are 38,000 LDS units but they seem to have small units (11 kids per unit).

The data is 18 months old and was revised downward during mid 2013 to 96,000 units. The 2014 number was around 93,000 or so (have to check the BSA source).

 

Below are the unit stats from BSA since 2007. 100k is three years in the rear view mirror.

 

2007      

50,780

50,213

49,037

Total= 112,647

 

2008

47,418

45,962

44,830

Total= 111,839

2009

43,110

41,947

41,628

Total= 109,786

2010

40,997

40,146

39,392

Total= 106,464

 

2011

38,713

37,739

19,920

Total= 103,207

 

2012

19,998

19,752

18,900

Total= 100,618

 

2013

17,853

17,075

16,013            

Total= 96,862

Edited July 28, 2015 by Bad Wolf

[fred johnson]

I think the problem is the public perception of scouting does not realize there are closely held units operated as youth ministries and assumes that troops are owned and directed by BSA National.  Perhaps BSA needs to focus more on public education on how it "franchises" scouting.

 

I was thinking the same thing.  BSA does a really poor job explaining to the public the relationship between BSA and chartered organizations.  But then again, IMHO, BSA has played fast and loose with "chartered organizations owning" the units. 

 

As for "closely held", I'd have a hard time finding any scouting unit NOT closely held as most churches provide the space and signs off on the leaders.  IMHO, if you actually meet at the church, then it's hard to argue against closely held.  IMHO, it would only be not closely held if the church choose to say it's not closely held and I think there are many churches that would say that.  But then BSA has other issues with that such as who is actually vetting the leaders and making sure it's a quality program.

 

If this is a first step in anything, it's a first step in getting BSA and chartered organizations to flush out their relationships. 

[Gone]

@@fred johnson but most units I know meet at their CO, service their CO, have space and are "part of" the CO, yet the CO does not consider them in the same vein as any of their other ministries. They see them more as a philanthropic service by providing a space to meet and such. Most CORs are not involved beyond the odd signature now and then. 

[Sentinel947]

I believe he said units. Looks like the word units. My point stands, BSA hasn't seen a 100k units in a while.

 

That is not my impression (but note: I am not involved with Trail Life). Although most people leaving the BSA seem to be quitting scouting altogether -- otherwise you would see TLUSA etc. membership numbers in the 100,000s.

Looks like we are reading two separate comments. My bad

[John-in-KC]

WAKWIB, who I know in real life, helps us get to a valid point.  Scouter99 in this case does too.

 

At some point, someone will sue a chartered partner over local option.  BSA, as it must under the charter agreement, will defend.  Sooner or later, the right case, state and judge will find for the plaintiff, and BSA will be out (self-insured for the 1st Million remember?) a mil.

 

With that 1st precedent, some other plaintiff will win in their jurisdiction.  BSA will be out another mil, or perhaps more.

 

At that point, the folks in Irving will cut their losses (see also G2SS restrictions), and end the faith based exception.

 

I give this five years to happen...

Edited July 30, 2015 by John-in-KC

[Gone]

Two years until retirement....so I will make it before that happens.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Sooner or later, the right case, state and judge will find for the plaintiff, and BSA will be out (self-insured for the 1st Million remember?) a mil.

 

 

How is that supposed to happen?

 

Lower courts are restricted by case law, including supreme court opinions.  The BSA still says it's a private organization, and if they want to allow some units to allow gays and other units to decide for themselves, that doesn't change what the BSA is.  Only the supreme court could reverse itself.

[Gone]

How is that supposed to happen?

 

Lower courts are restricted by case law, including supreme court opinions.  The BSA still says it's a private organization, and if they want to allow some units to allow gays and other units to decide for themselves, that doesn't change what the BSA is.  Only the supreme court could reverse itself.

 

Can BSA now, after going to the local option, compel units who elect to restrict membership to open up?

[00Eagle]

Can BSA now, after going to the local option, compel units who elect to restrict membership to open up?

Yes if it's published in the official literature, as the chartering agreements require the troop be operated in accordance with the publsihed literature.

 

[verbatim]

Conduct the Scouting program consistent with BSA rules, regulations, and policies. They may be found on the My Scouting website and at the following location:

www.scouting.org/Membership/Charter_Orgs/resources.aspx