Cooking Mb At Summer Camp

[Gone]

The trail cooking part is difficult.  We didnt have a backpacking trip in the Fall and our Spring trip was cancelled because it was going to be 15 degrees at the end of March.

The trail cooking requirement bothers me. Most treks these days are "boil-n-eat" affairs. Other than hygiene and bear protocol (which I don't' recall seeing the latter in the requirements) what else is there to go over cooking-wise that differes from the patrol or family-based requirements? I'd like to see more about obtaining fresh ingredients or options in meal planning for treks (I.e., how to resupply, trail angels, water purification, etc.).

[TAHAWK]

"No council, committee, district, unit, or individual has the authority to add to, or subtract from, advancement requirements. There are limited exceptions relating only to youth members with special needs. For details see section 10, “'Advancement for Members With Special Needs.'â€

 

"Earning merit badges should be Scout initiated, Scout researched, and Scout learned. It should be hands-on and interactive, and should not be modeled after a typical school classroom setting. Instead, it is meant to be an active program so enticing to young men that they will want to take responsibility for their own full participation."

 

"The sort of hands-on interactive experience described here, with personal coaching and guidance, is hardly ever achieved in any setting except when one counselor works directly with one Scout and his buddy, or with a very small group. Thus, this small-scale approach is the recommended best practice for merit badge instruction and requirement fulfillment. Units, districts, and councils should focus on providing the most direct merit badge experiences possible. Large group and Web-based instruction, while perhaps efficient, do not measure up in terms of the desired outcomes with regard to learning and positive association with adults."

 

"There must be attention to each individual’s projects and his fulfillment of all requirements. We must know that every Scout—actually and personally—completed them. If, for example, a requirement uses words like “show,†“demonstrate,†or “discuss,†then every Scout must do that. It is unacceptable to award badges on the basis of sitting in classrooms watching demonstrations, or remaining silent during discussions."

 

"7.0.4.7 Limited Recourse for Unearned Merit Badges From time to time, it may be discovered that merit badges could not actually have been earned. For example, a Scout who returns from summer camp or a merit badge fair with signed blue cards for an extraordinary number of badges could raise concerns. If, after consulting with those involved in the merit badge program—such as an event coordinator, the camp director, or a merit badge counselor—it becomes plainly evident that a youth could not have actually and personally fulfilled requirements as written, then the limited recourse outlined below is available. It may result in a decision that some or all of the requirements for a badge could not have been fulfilled, and thus, that the badge was not actually earned.

After such a consultation, the unit leader, in a positive environment similar to that of a unit leader conference, discusses with the Scout the circumstances under which a merit badge in question was approved. A parent or an assistant unit leader should attend as an observer. The young man shall not be retested on the requirements, but a conversation with him can reveal if he was present at the class and actually and personally fulfilled all the requirements. Such a discussion could cover who taught a class, what sort of activities took place, where and when they occurred, how testing was done, what the Scout might have brought home from the class, and other similar process-oriented details. In most cases, with a fair and friendly approach, a young man who did not complete the requirements will admit it. Short of this, however, if it remains clear under the circumstances that some or all of the requirements could not have been met, then the merit badge is not reported or awarded, and does not count toward advancement. The unit leader then offers the name of at least one other merit badge counselor through whom any incomplete requirements may be finished. Note that in this case a merit badge is not “taken away†because, although signed off, it was never actually earned."

 

Boy Scouts Of America, National Council, Guide to Advancement 2015.

[Hedgehog]

The trail cooking requirement bothers me. Most treks these days are "boil-n-eat" affairs. Other than hygiene and bear protocol (which I don't' recall seeing the latter in the requirements) what else is there to go over cooking-wise that differes from the patrol or family-based requirements? I'd like to see more about obtaining fresh ingredients or options in meal planning for treks (I.e., how to resupply, trail angels, water purification, etc.).

 

Check out the website trailcooking.com.  There are recipies there for one pot meals and freezer bag cooking (make your own boil and eat meals).  I teach the boys about the options beyond boil and eat such as:  1) Instant Polenta; 2) Instant Couscous; 3) Instant Potatoes; 4) salami and pepperoni; 5) hard cheeses; 6) dehydrated eggs cooked using a One Egg Wonder (my son and I typically have a made from scratch egg, sausage and cheese tortilla); 7) foil packaged tuna and chicken; 8) dehydrated ground beef (I make my own which allows a bunch of variations on sloppy joes, meatball sandwiches and hamburgers); 9) soups (including Ramen); 10) canned chicken and turkey (how about a trail turkey dinner with turkey, gravy, stuffing and potatoes?); 11) quick cook pasta (3 minutes); 12) Kraft Maccaroni and Cheese (what kid would refuse that while backpacking?); 13) pancakes cooked using the One Egg Wonder (I love the Flapjack protein pancakes); 14) blueberry muffins or cupcakes (see trailcooking website for faux baking); and more.  Not to mention having the boys make their own jerky and trail mix.

 

I also show the boys about ready to eat items.  I love to take Tastycake Pies, Little Debbie Honey Buns, biscotti and prepackaged chocolate cupcakes.  

 

There also is the ability to do what I call "first night" meals.  You don't mind having a little extra weight for the first night.  If you will be in a campsite that has a fire ring or you have a backpacking grill (or in my case an old toster oven rack) you can do steak, italian sausages or anything else you desire grilled over a fire.  OK, now I'm officially hungry.

[Rick_in_CA]

Check out the website trailcooking.com.  There are recipies there for one pot meals and freezer bag cooking (make your own boil and eat meals). 

Boiling in freezer bags are a bad idea, only use boil safe bags.

[5yearscouter]

our summer camp cooking merit badge has taken it up a notch.  Aside from the classroom time, the boys doing the badge meet at lunch time and do most of their cooking then. 

Basically the adult mb counselor goes to the kitchen and get a selection of food that the chef orders ahead of time or has extra of on hand, so some chicken and beef and hamburger, rice, pastas, milk, cheese, butter, spices, various vegetables, flour, sugar, potatoes, etc. and there is a set amount, x number of kids are doing the merit badge so he gets x lbs of food items.  Staples are stored longer term of course.

 

They have a fridge at the program area and the stuff all goes in the fridge/kitchen.

When it becomes time to plan the meals, the boys do their planning while getting a chance to peruse some camping recipe books, and looking in the fridge/kitchen for what is available.

 

They make their menu and then go "shopping" in that area, having to choose from and use what is available to them there, like when you go to the store and they only have certain vegetables that look good so you have to make adjustments to your menu to account for that.

 

It works fairly well, they get about an hour a day of cooking if they cook all week, and they get an hour a day ish of instructional time, but not everyone goes home with it completed.

 

For trail meals it tends to be hike down the trail a mile and use the trail stoves to make oatmeal (not instant at least) or other similar SIMPLE meal.

[5yearscouter]

Oh I have a question,

For cooking mb 6c says they need to cook 2 meals on a lightweight stove or low impact fire.

 

How do you define lightweight stove?

 

This is complicated because our troop uses two burner propane stoves like this

http://www.big5sportinggoods.com/store/details/Camp%20Chef+Explorer-Two-Burner-Propane-Stove/0730122136000/_/A-2436707?#.VbMYuWxREfQ

 

for plop camping which tends to be a lot of their camping.

 

They use backpacking stoves for backpack trips--mostly like these http://www.big5sportinggoods.com/store/details/Stansport+Backpack-Stove-with-Fuel/0760107990184/_/A-5356423#.VbMaLmxRE5s

or those that take liquid fuel.

 

which they think could be ok for the "trail stove" example in the merit badge book,

but if also used as the "lightweight stove" requirement seems to be shortcutting that

BSA wants scouts to use more than one type of stove for this merit badge.

 

Some say that lightweight stove is more like this

http://www.big5sportinggoods.com/store/details/Coleman+2-Burner-Propane-Stove/0730101784060/_/A-4737276#.VbMZRGxRE5s

 

and some say this would also do

http://www.big5sportinggoods.com/store/details/Stansport+Single-Burner-Propane-Stove/0730107990201/_/A-3774759#.VbMZWWxRE5s

 

But that the primary stove used (first link) is definitely NOT lightweight,

cause it takes two scouts to carry it plus the propane canister.

Edited July 25, 2015 by 5yearscouter

[Gone]

Oh I have a question,

For cooking mb 6c says they need to cook 2 meals on a lightweight stove or low impact fire.

 

How do you define lightweight stove?

 

This is complicated because our troop uses two burner propane stoves like this

http://www.big5sportinggoods.com/store/details/Camp%20Chef+Explorer-Two-Burner-Propane-Stove/0730122136000/_/A-2436707?#.VbMYuWxREfQ

 

for plop camping which tends to be a lot of their camping.

 

They use backpacking stoves for backpack trips--mostly like these http://www.big5sportinggoods.com/store/details/Stansport+Backpack-Stove-with-Fuel/0760107990184/_/A-5356423#.VbMaLmxRE5s

or those that take liquid fuel.

 

which they think could be ok for the "trail stove" example in the merit badge book,

but if also used as the "lightweight stove" requirement seems to be shortcutting that

BSA wants scouts to use more than one type of stove for this merit badge.

 

Some say that lightweight stove is more like this

http://www.big5sportinggoods.com/store/details/Coleman+2-Burner-Propane-Stove/0730101784060/_/A-4737276#.VbMZRGxRE5s

 

and some say this would also do

http://www.big5sportinggoods.com/store/details/Stansport+Single-Burner-Propane-Stove/0730107990201/_/A-3774759#.VbMZWWxRE5s

 

But that the primary stove used (first link) is definitely NOT lightweight,

cause it takes two scouts to carry it plus the propane canister.

Up to the counselor to interpret. I would think the second stove would suffice.

[packsaddle]

I agree. Up to the counselor...for low impact fire as well..the context is also important. I have never had this problem with Cooking MB but several notable times with Environmental Science MB. In those cases, I merely asked the boys about what they had done to complete all of the requirements. They were honest about it. I asked them if they felt good about it and if not what did they think was the best way to correct the situation. They collectively decided to actually complete the requirements, which they did. Afterwards I asked how they felt about the whole situation, how we had all handled it, and they had very thoughtful and insightful responses. I am proud of those young men.

[Hedgehog]

Boiling in freezer bags are a bad idea, only use boil safe bags.

 

Interesting blog post.  First, I've been unable to find any other source for the warning other than an often quoted but impossible to find University of Illinois press release.  Second,  a University wouldn't issue a press release without referencing a study or quoting a faculty member.  Third, the press release is gramatically incorrect "There is still question about cancer causing breakdown of plastics and their contact with food during cooking" and very poorly written.  Fourth, the press release doesn't even identify what carcinogenic compounds could be released like dioxin (which chemically can't be leached from plastic despite what rumors say) or BPA/EA (which isn't a carcinogen but an endocrine disruptor).  That caused me to question the veracity of the claims in the alleged press release.

 

From the research I've done on the internet (which is anything but conclusive) it is unlikely that any dangerous chemicals can leach from food-grade low-density polyethylene.  http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA400527/Plastic-Steaming-Bag-Danger.html and http://www.trailcooking.com/trail-cooking-101/freezer-bags-safe/ and http://permanent.access.gpo.gov/lps1609/www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2002/602_plastic.html  But everyone has to draw their own conclusions.

 

I tried the omlette in a bag thing with a regular Ziploc bag and it was a complete failure because the bag hit the sides of the pot and melted.  With that experience, I wouldn't ever put anything in a Ziploc bag and boil it because it isn't practical.  

 

HOWEVER, freezer bag cooking doesn't require boiling the bag or even putting boiling water in the bag.  The water that goes in should be between 160 degrees and 180 degrees to rehydrate the food (below the "softening" point referenced in the article, whatever that is).  About the same as you would do to make hot chocolate or instant coffee in your BSA mug with the plastic insert (which probably has the same "softening" point).  For me it works, everyone needs to reach their own conclusions.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Hedgehog

[Hedgehog]

Oh I have a question,

For cooking mb 6c says they need to cook 2 meals on a lightweight stove or low impact fire.

 

How do you define lightweight stove?

 

 

***

 

But that the primary stove used (first link) is definitely NOT lightweight,

cause it takes two scouts to carry it plus the propane canister.

 

Even though our guys use the second one, I don't have a problem with the first one as a lightweight stove.  Really, the skills used are pretty much the same on either the one you use of the Coleman-type stove.  I've used the single buner propane type stoves (when I've been camping in the Caribean and you can't transport or buy Isobutane) and I would consider that to be between a lightweight and a backpacking stove.

[TAHAWK]

I found this in five minutes.  I have no idea if it is accurate.

 

 

 

y Susan Brewer Ph.D.

Aug 21, 2009

By Susan Brewer, Ph.D., University of Illinois,
Department of Food Science and Human Nutrition

 
Microwaveable cooking bags will be specified and sold as such. Read the package label. In general, plastic sandwich bags, produce bags. and bread bags should not be used in the microwave. They melt and can allow compounds and ink to leach into the food. Also, if the food is wrapped in air-tight, impermeable plastic, when the water in the food vaporizes and expands as steam, it can cause a great deal of pressure inside the film. The film may rupture during cooking, spraying food/liquid all over the inside of the microwave or the pressure may not be released until you disturb it (touch it to take it out, try to remove the film, etc.), in which case it can burn you.
 
Source(s):
Food Domain, A Comprehensive Resource. “Can you safely microwave vegetables in plastic storage bags?â€
http://www.fooddomain.msu.edu/consumer_faq_cooking.htm#6
 
Link(s):
Food Domain, A Comprehensive Resource. “Can you safely microwave vegetables in plastic storage bags?â€
http://www.fooddomain.msu.edu/consumer_faq_cooking.htm#6

[5yearscouter]

ok so there is pretty good agreement here that this

http://www.big5sportinggoods.com/store/details/Camp%20Chef+Explorer-Two-Burner-Propane-Stove/0730122136000/_/A-2436707?#.VbSFmGxRE5t

is NOT a lightweight stove?? Right? 

 

Cause I got a lot a grief [as a cooking mb counselor] when I brought that up to the troop.

 

I had some Scouts wondering what stoves they should cook on that would be lightweight and when I told them my opinion

they then were wondering if the troop could provide one or two of those stoves,

you know since there is tons of room in the giant troop trailer (don't get me started on that part).

 

I recommended one of the two other coleman type stoves as options to be available for the scouts. 

There is a one burner coleman in the trailer now, and I think a two burner will be added soon.

 

Personally I like a two burner coleman stove, and it is the most likely stove that someone will grow up and use on family camping trips, so it's sort of like a life skill to know how to use one of those type popular camp stoves

Edited July 26, 2015 by 5yearscouter

[5yearscouter]

Interesting blog post.  First, I've been unable to find any other source for the warning other than an often quoted but impossible to find University of Illinois press release.  Second,  a University wouldn't issue a press release without referencing a study or quoting a faculty member.  Third, the press release is gramatically incorrect "There is still question about cancer causing breakdown of plastics and their contact with food during cooking" and very poorly written.  Fourth, the press release doesn't even identify what carcinogenic compounds could be released like dioxin (which chemically can't be leached from plastic despite what rumors say) or BPA/EA (which isn't a carcinogen but an endocrine disruptor).  That caused me to question the veracity of the claims in the alleged press release.

 

From the research I've done on the internet (which is anything but conclusive) it is unlikely that any dangerous chemicals can leach from food-grade low-density polyethylene.  http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA400527/Plastic-Steaming-Bag-Danger.html and http://www.trailcooking.com/trail-cooking-101/freezer-bags-safe/ and http://permanent.access.gpo.gov/lps1609/www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2002/602_plastic.html  But everyone has to draw their own conclusions.

 

I tried the omlette in a bag thing with a regular Ziploc bag and it was a complete failure because the bag hit the sides of the pot and melted.  With that experience, I wouldn't ever put anything in a Ziploc bag and boil it because it isn't practical.  

 

HOWEVER, freezer bag cooking doesn't require boiling the bag or even putting boiling water in the bag.  The water that goes in should be between 160 degrees and 180 degrees to rehydrate the food (below the "softening" point referenced in the article, whatever that is).  About the same as you would do to make hot chocolate or instant coffee in your BSA mug with the plastic insert (which probably has the same "softening" point).  For me it works, everyone needs to reach their own conclusions.

Yeah I've looked into this a bit.

Ziplock bags are safe to heat food in the microwave[according to manufacturer] which seems to mean they don't leach deadly chemicals if heated to extreme temps [in a microwave]. 

If so, then logically I will assume they are also not going to leach deadly chemicals heated to extreme temps in a pot of boiling water. 

 

The highest risk seems to be the danger of the bag melting and pouring hot food on your foot. Doing at test at home when cub scouts were contemplating ziplock omlet cooking, I did discover that the key is to use the larger gallon size freezer bags and securing the bags in the center of a large enough pot that they can't touch the bottom or sides lowers failure rate considerably.

 

I came to the conclusion that for most normal scouters or scouts the number of ziplock omlets or other boil in bag food items eaten in their lifetime is not a huge enough amount to significantly raise health risk. AND adding the cheese to the bags with the eggs meant cub scouts had trouble telling if their eggs were done since they always added soooooo much cheese. easier to add the cheese after they were sure the eggs were cooked or mostly cooked.

[Hedgehog]

ok so there is pretty good agreement here that this

http://www.big5sportinggoods.com/store/details/Camp%20Chef+Explorer-Two-Burner-Propane-Stove/0730122136000/_/A-2436707?#.VbSFmGxRE5t

is NOT a lightweight stove?? Right? 

 

***

Personally I like a two burner coleman stove, and it is the most likely stove that someone will grow up and use on family camping trips, so it's sort of like a life skill to know how to use one of those type popular camp stoves

 

I do agree those aren't lightweight (unless compared to a household stove top and oven).  However, I would consider it lightweight for the merit bage if there wasn't an alternative because the skills are transferrable.  I actually find that those stoves are more difficult to cook with than the Coleman two burners because you don't have a lot of control at lower temperatures.  We use a lot of cast iron (griddles and frying pans) and you need to be able to use lower temperatures to avoid burning food.

 

And yes, the two burner Coleman stoves are exactly what most people will use for family camping.  Unless you are me, and then you use this: http://www.coleman.com/Product/2000020937#.VbTHJ3h3uT8.  

 

Yeah I've looked into this a bit.

Ziplock bags are safe to heat food in the microwave[according to manufacturer] which seems to mean they don't leach deadly chemicals if heated to extreme temps [in a microwave]. 

If so, then logically I will assume they are also not going to leach deadly chemicals heated to extreme temps in a pot of boiling water. 

 

The highest risk seems to be the danger of the bag melting and pouring hot food on your foot. Doing at test at home when cub scouts were contemplating ziplock omlet cooking, I did discover that the key is to use the larger gallon size freezer bags and securing the bags in the center of a large enough pot that they can't touch the bottom or sides lowers failure rate considerably.

 

I came to the conclusion that for most normal scouters or scouts the number of ziplock omlets or other boil in bag food items eaten in their lifetime is not a huge enough amount to significantly raise health risk. AND adding the cheese to the bags with the eggs meant cub scouts had trouble telling if their eggs were done since they always added soooooo much cheese. easier to add the cheese after they were sure the eggs were cooked or mostly cooked.

I couldn't open the links Stosh posted, but here is another one:

 

http://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/microwaving-food-in-plastic-dangerous-or-not

 

I've used regular Ziploc bags in the microwave and they have melted due to the food temperature.  The freezer bags don't seem to melt under similar conditions.

 

The other problem with the egg in a bag for me is that the liquid doesn't evaporate.  I've found that the idea is great and it is fun to try, but I don't see it as spmething I would do regularly.  For one person, this is the best investment in backpacking gear: http://www.amazon.com/T-fal-A85700-Specialty-Nonstick-4-75-Inch/dp/B000GWG14Q.  If you are ultralight, you can take off half of the handle.

 

Again, I want to stress that freezer bag cooking doesn't involve boiling the bag.  You just pour hot water (to me it is when you start to see tiny bubbles rise to the top) -- not boiling water --  into the bag (which is in a cozy).  

[JasonG172]

I have one more year before my son moves on to a Troop.  These Merit Badge colleges aren't something I would probably encourage.