Misrepresentation During A Board Of Review

[Jodie]

I was part of a board of review last night where we promoted a scout. I found out today that he misrepresented himself. It was not an outright lie, but still. The question was asked of him, "tell an example where you have shown leadership and helped the new first year scouts". He responed with an example of how just last week at camp he sat down and showed them some knots. I complimented him on his initiative as this was very uncharacteristic of this scout (he borders on being a bully at times to the younger boys). I found out today that doing the knot tying presentation was a form of punishment of his bad behavour at camp. I wish I had known this before we promoted him, before I complimented him. This is an ongoing trend that I am seeing with this scout. Any comments, suggestions would be more than helpful. FYI - this was a promotion to 1st Class rank.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Jodie

[KenD500]

Assumption - you are a Committee Member.

 

Make sure the Scoutmaster is aware of how he represented himself.  Let the Scoutmaster & his ASMs deal with it.

[scoutldr]

I would be sure to file this away for his Star BOR...if there is one.

[prof]

Assumption - you are a Committee Member.

 

Make sure the Scoutmaster is aware of how he represented himself.  Let the Scoutmaster & his ASMs deal with it.

I think this would be the route I would go. Let the SM know about it and deal with it in a SM conference, formal or informal.

 

Like Scoutldr suggests, I would put this in my files and bring it back up when the Star BOR comes around. I might remind the boy of the scout oath and law, then this incident, then ask if there has been any change that he sees in himself.

[qwazse]

Welcome to the forums.

 

As an ASM, I would not want to tarnish any opinion of the board. So, talk to them after discussing this with your committee chairman (CC).

 

I disagree with @@scoutldr and @@prof. If you have misgivings, call your CC and request that your signature be withdrawn.

 

Then, request that they follow the guide to advancement -- basically that involves the board sending a note to the scout (copy the parents) as to why you are withholding rank advancement, and what he should do to remedy the situation.

 

After that, call the SM and explain your decision.

 

I would not be very harsh about this. The boy doesn't understand the difference between helping out of his own free will vs. being compelled. The board needs to teach him. Explain to him that you missed that detail the first time, and would have not considered that truly helpful. But, maybe there are other ways that didn't involve other people making him that demonstrated his helpfulness. You would like him to think of an example where he helped without being required to do so.

 

There is absolutly no reason to award the patch to someone who you do not think is a First Class scout.

Edited July 14, 2015 by qwazse

[SeattlePioneer]

<<

As an ASM, I would not want to tarnish any opinion of the board. So, talk to them after discussing this with your committee chairman (CC).

 

I disagree with @scoutldr and @prof. If you have misgivings, call your CC and request that your signature be withdrawn.

 

Then, request that they follow the guide to advancement -- basically that involves the board sending a note to the scout (copy the parents) as to why you are withholding rank advancement, and what he should do to remedy the situation.

 

After that, call the SM and explain your decision.>> 

 

 

 

Interesting idea.

 

It sounds like he DID do the activity he described  --- only the motivation for doing so could be described as being different.

 

No harm in calling him back before the BOR to explain in more detail what happened.

 

With a fuller explanation,  I'd go ahead and approve the advancement.

[Peregrinator]

It strikes me that having an older scout show some younger boys how to tie knots is not a very good punishment. Now he'll associate mentoring with being punished.

[qwazse]

<<...I disagree with @scoutldr and @prof. If you have misgivings, call your CC and request that your signature be withdrawn.

 

Then, request that they follow the guide to advancement -- basically that involves the board sending a note to the scout (copy the parents) as to why you are withholding rank advancement, and what he should do to remedy the situation. ....>> 

 

Interesting idea.

 

It sounds like he DID do the activity he described  --- only the motivation for doing so could be described as being different.

 

No harm in calling him back before the BOR to explain in more detail what happened.

 

With a fuller explanation,  I'd go ahead and approve the advancement.

This is not a required activity for 1st Class. Just a question from the board about how the scout thought he was living up to scout spirit. If the board missed a detail, yet felt it was important. IMHO, they missed out on a conversation they really wanted to have.  It's not too late to rectify that situation.

 

The boy could say, "Yeah, I actually had to do it because ___. But, once I got started, I did the best job I could because I wanted the scout to be proud of his work." And that could be enough to throw the board members in a grey area regarding yes/no. But, it could be enough for them to encourage the kid to really lead (regardless of his PoR) while working on Star.

[SSScout]

Talk to the SM and let him deal with it.  If he assigned the task, and was satisfied with the result, so be it.

Sometimes the bully NEEDS to be given more responsibility and closely mentored in how the responsibility is carried out.  Did he do a good job teaching/practicing knots?  It might actually be appropriate to make him an Instructor.

 

On the other hand,  if the Scout made it sound as if he thought up the assignment, rather than being assigned to do it, well, that also needs to be pointed out to the SM.

[Stosh]

The motivation behind helping another scout is not part of the requirement. I don't recall any of the requirements saying anything like, Demonstrate because you want to..... or some such thing. .I'm thinking the SM has already signed off on Scout Spirit so he was satisfied with the boy's motivational progress and now the BOR is questioning not only the scout's honesty, but the SM as well.

[meschen]

Welcome to the forums.

 

As an ASM, I would not want to tarnish any opinion of the board. So, talk to them after discussing this with your committee chairman (CC).

 

I disagree with @@scoutldr and @@prof. If you have misgivings, call your CC and request that your signature be withdrawn.

 

Then, request that they follow the guide to advancement -- basically that involves the board sending a note to the scout (copy the parents) as to why you are withholding rank advancement, and what he should do to remedy the situation.

 

After that, call the SM and explain your decision.

 

I would not be very harsh about this. The boy doesn't understand the difference between helping out of his own free will vs. being compelled. The board needs to teach him. Explain to him that you missed that detail the first time, and would have not considered that truly helpful. But, maybe there are other ways that didn't involve other people making him that demonstrated his helpfulness. You would like him to think of an example where he helped without being required to do so.

 

There is absolutly no reason to award the patch to someone who you do not think is a First Class scout.

 

I disagree. Please recheck guide to advancement 8.0.1.4 and 8.0.1.5. Once a Scout has been called and congratulated by the BoR that he has met the requirements for the rank, he becomes that rank. There are no provisions for take-backs a week later in light of new information.

 

The matter is properly addressed between the the Scout and his Scoutmaster. It should be addressed as part of his requirement for showing Scout Spirit to earn his Star rank.

[fred johnson]

I disagree. Please recheck guide to advancement 8.0.1.4 and 8.0.1.5. Once a Scout has been called and congratulated by the BoR that he has met the requirements for the rank, he becomes that rank. There are no provisions for take-backs a week later in light of new information.

 

The matter is properly addressed between the the Scout and his Scoutmaster. It should be addressed as part of his requirement for showing Scout Spirit to earn his Star rank.

 

Fully 100% agree.  

[fred johnson]

...  It was not an outright lie, but still. The question was asked of him, "tell an example where you have shown leadership and helped the new first year scouts". He responded with an example of how just last week at camp he sat down and showed them some knots. ...

 

This is a minor mismatch in communication.  You asked X wanting to get at Y.  He answered X without letting you know about Z.  

 

He did show leadership in the act of teaching the knots.  You wanted to talk about leadership as the initiative to help the new scouts.  There was a mismatch in communication.  Now, the scout did not help you clear that up, but it wasn't a lie.  It takes a certain maturity to discuss your own faults and errors and past mistakes in a constructive way. ... and the scout blew it.

 

The best solution is let the scoutmaster know and let him deal with it.  SM could bring it up in a relaxed way so that the scout knows the scout did not trick anyone and the "details" were learned.  It's a good life lesson for the scout.  "Details" will come out.  You might as well bring them up yourself instead of having others find out about it.

Edited July 15, 2015 by fred johnson

[qwazse]

I disagree. Please recheck guide to advancement 8.0.1.4 and 8.0.1.5. Once a Scout has been called and congratulated by the BoR that he has met the requirements for the rank, he becomes that rank. There are no provisions for take-backs a week later in light of new information.

 

The matter is properly addressed between the the Scout and his Scoutmaster. It should be addressed as part of his requirement for showing Scout Spirit to earn his Star rank.

Not a week later, but what about within 24 hours?

I'm saying that a MC has the right to publicly regret his actions. The other adults don't have to agree. They can live life believing that the GTA has muzzled them. Or they can think, actually think, about what's best for this boy.

And yes, the scout could appeal or what-not. And a unit commishioner might put you all in your places. But doing nothing may very well leave the boy unchallenged and further from becoming a star scout than he realizes.

[Twocubdad]

I agree it's too late to do anything about First Class.  But you do have a learning opportunity here.  Discuss the issue with the SM. Assuming the SM confirms your suspicions,  I would ask to informally meet with the Scout, perhaps along with another member of the BOR (I don't think I would formally reconvene the board) and share your concerns with him.  Maybe he really doesn't understand the issue.  Or maybe he thinks he's getting one over on you.  Either way, conversations like this are what Scouting is all about.