Update On Adult Leadership Standards

[qwazse]

One of the most ignorant and offensive things that I have ever read on the internet. And I've seen some shockers. I'm quite shocked that the moderators are allowing this to stand.

Welcome to my world 'skip. (Western PA, The Midwest of the east.)

But this is no mere hyperbole for the sake argument, the dread of same-sex predation is palpable among scout parents here.

On the other hand, the notion that I might expose attractive youth to an admiring opposite sex coadvisor (or ASM) is rarely considered, or if it is, goes unmentioned until I'm actually teaching Youth Protection.

 

The working presumption is that homosexuals lack the restraint that is supposedly innate in heterosexuals.

[JoeBob]

Or imagine a very hot lesbian SM.  How would the boys react to that challenge?

[eagle77]

Or imagine a very hot lesbian SM.  How would the boys react to that challenge?

 

  The same as any other female SM. What challenge?

[wmturner]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I will once again say that it is the Chartered Organization who owns the unit. It is their unit, lock, stock, and barrel. It is understandable that some may come to feel a sense of "ownership" in their unit. They are entitled to their feelings, but they are not entitled to any real ownership in the unit. The unit still belongs to the CO.

The CO of every unit I've been associated with has been very arms length.  There was less a feeling of ownership than one of duty, that is, it was a community service to sponsor a scouting unit, so they did.  Outside of monolithic orgs like LDS, I can't see a huge % of CO's making the effort to exclude a gay applicant, and definitely not making the effort to fight a legal battle over it if they get targeted.  Maybe I've just been in the company of apathetic CO's... but that's my experience.

[packsaddle]

Thanks to WMTurner and Stosh: Spammer has been banned and posts deleted.

[fred johnson]

A volunteer of a scouting program is not a minstrel role.. 

 

Leaders sing, sometimes read poetry and often treat Eagles as royalty.  In that, scout leaders perform a "minstrel" role. ... But that's not important right now.

 

A "ministerial role" seems without question.  Churches run scouting programs to teach values during formative years.  These values include "Duty To God".  Even if they didn't, it is a ministerial role same as ministering to the sick, homeless or the poor.  The unit leaders may not be "ordained" ministers, but that is not a requirement to be a ministerial role.  Sunday school teachers are often not ordained.  Private school teachers are not formally ordained but can be selected and put in positions that include "ministerial" duty references.  I doubt few churches would care to go this far, but it would be relatively easy to establish and defend.

[robert12]

This if from the Key 3 letter.  After the youth membership standard change, there was a net loss, I suspect that this will result in the same.

 

 

 

 

The national Key 3 and others consulted with major religious organizations following the National Annual Meeting in May on the subject of adult leadership standards. Scout executives from across the country urged national leadership to swiftly act on this matter in order to enhance recruitment prospects for new Scouts beginning this fall.

[BadenP]

While this new policy seems long overdue it seems hypocritical to me that this is restricted ONLY to religious CO's and not  ALL CO's , separate but not equal.

These continuing inconsistencies by National is why they will continue to be subject to constant criticism by the press, the membership, and the general public.

IMO National has lost its way in leading the BSA into the 21st century, as is reflected by continuing declining membership numbers and the loss of corporate supporters on an ever increasing scale.

[chrisking0997]

BSA didn't already have 80 years' worth of files on women who had sex with Scouts when they made that decision. 

 

and, strangely, the previous policy did NOTHING to prevent those 80 years of files.  I dont recall reading anything that says sex with a minor is now an approved activity, or that it will be treated any differently than any of the other cases in those 80 years of files (in fact, the policy changes of the last 10-20 years make it likely that those incidents will be dealt with as harshly as they should be)

[fred johnson]

While this new policy seems long overdue it seems hypocritical to me that this is restricted ONLY to religious CO's and not  ALL CO's , separate but not equal.

These continuing inconsistencies by National is why they will continue to be subject to constant criticism by the press, the membership, and the general public.

IMO National has lost its way in leading the BSA into the 21st century, as is reflected by continuing declining membership numbers and the loss of corporate supporters on an ever increasing scale.

 

@@BadenP - How is this restricted to religious CO's?  Non-religious CO's (PTOs, community groups, businesses) also now can have leaders they select.  But just as with hiring, they can't discriminate.  If you want leaders reflecting your personal faith and that is important to you, then find a scouting unit sponsored by a church.  

[BadenP]

Fred

 

Why should only the religious CO's have the right to discriminate against gay leaders and not CO's of organizations with their own codes of morality and decency as many service organizations do? I will tell you why, because  National allows churches CO's much more leeway and control in the running of the BSA program because of the numbers and money they receive from them, just another example of how directionally lost National is with and within the scouting program. A nonreligious CO who finds a gay leader unacceptable because of their own rules or code of conduct should have EQUAL rights with the religious CO, to do otherwise is inconsistent, and just plain poor administration from which there will be a serious backlash from the non religious CO's who are now being forced to take on a leader they feel just does not fit into their own scouting program.

[Stosh]

What a lot of people today fail to realize and have taken power control is the direct attack on the First Bill of Rights.  Our government has accepted the principle of a separation between Church and State.  However, in reality they have increasingly encroached to the point where they are consistently claiming and processing through the government their own brand of bigotry and persecution.  If there is a separation between Church and State, how can the State through the Legislative branch make any laws pertaining to Churches, expect enforcement of those laws and find it convenient to use the courts to force churches into compliance to civil laws when they are not honored by the Church?

 

We spend an enormous amount of time dictating to religious organizations what they must believe in order not to lose their freedoms because of what they believe.  Well it is quite obvious that when our country adopts more and more Sharia Laws, this issue will quickly go away  

 

To a Christian all he/she asks is that outsiders not come into their homes and pee on the carpet.    Under Sharia Law, there will be those out watching people to see who's drinking water.

 

Now that the government no longer honors the Separation of Church and State, that pretty much opens the door for no longer having to honor tyrannical laws.

 

At my age, I'm not really too worried about it.  Either I get cold meals, 2 showers a week, bed at 7:00 pm, live in a small room and pay $4,000/month, or I can go to prison, get a shower every day, video surveillance to make sure I'm safe, library, TV, gym doctors on call and free medication and it costs me nothing.

 

I'm still thinking on that one, I'll get back to you.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

You're insane, Stosh.

[fred johnson]

@@BadenP .... I see now what you are saying.  But it's not really a BSA thing.  All BSA can do is step out of the battle of the day.  This is a larger society issue.  The US Constitution protects religious freedoms, but laws prevent discrimination.  So, it's really the US government that shields churches so they can pick and choose, but businesses and public organizations can't.  

 

Society is filled with ugly contradictions.  

[fred johnson]

You're insane, Stosh.

 

Thank you for keeping it short.