BadenP Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Fred,and others, WE are not talking about laws here or separation of church and state, rather we are speaking of a select group of individuals at National deciding that there should be two separate sets of rules deciding who you can or can not have as volunteers as a CO depending on whether you are a religious based CO or not. The two versions of these new rules lacks any real forethought or common sense and will probably result in even more scouts and leaders leaving the program. The CO and ONLY the CO should be the one deciding who are the appropriate candidates for their unit leaders. .National should stick solely to administering scouting and developing new programs, which is their job, instead of dictating and forcing new membership rules that goes against what that CO believes is right for their units. National needs to back off these new requirements and fast before they singlehandedly destroy what is left of the scouting program that they have been rapidly chipping away at since the 1970's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambridgeskip Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 in no way did I imply that the people in the photos were Scouts, though I'm sure Scouts UK would have preferred that they were. I was going to take some time this morning to write a lengthy rebuff of your previous comments. This latest disgraceful slur from you does the job for me though. It is no longer possible to take you or your views seriously any more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick_in_CA Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) I was going to take some time this morning to write a lengthy rebuff of your previous comments. This latest disgraceful slur from you does the job for me though. It is no longer possible to take you or your views seriously any more. You have to understand that Scouter99 has been writing stuff like this for years on this forum. You can see it in multiple threads. Because he can document (and yes he can) that in the first half of the 20th century, several groups of male homosexuals saw teenage boys as desirable (and acceptable) sexual targets (and basically bragged about it in writing), he believes that this shows that ALL homosexual males desire sex with teenage boys. In fact, he appears to believe that desiring sex with teenage boys is a fundamental element of male homosexual identity. Any male homosexual that claims to not want sex with young boys is either lying, or is denying their own identity. The fact that in the same time period (and even today) you can document male heterosexuals that saw teenage girls as desirable and acceptable sexual targets (and also wrote about it) is irrelevant. As for the photos, you can see the heterosexual equivalent by typing carnival into Google Images. And yes, you can find scouts attending Mardi Gras and Carnival parades in many countries (including this one). Not to mention the Shinto HÅnen Matsuri festival in Japan which is considered good (heterosexual) family fun. The fact that it can be shown that there is nothing unique about the stuff that he is documenting gets ignored. I think it's because that challenges the idea that such things are somehow a unique evil of the “homosexual cultureâ€. I don’t believe anything we can write will change his opinion as it’s all about validating the idea that “homosexuality is evil and predatoryâ€. Edited July 17, 2015 by packsaddle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 If homosexual parade pictures are inappropriate for the forum, and the drunken debauchery of Mardi Gras and Carnival event pictures are inappropriate for the forum, and heterosexual concerns about young teenage girls is inappropriate, why are we allowing the door to open to any of this types of behavior in scouting? We need to be working to "moderate" more than just the forum. I guess my only concern is the "in your face" attitude of such groups that tell me that such activity is somehow okay when in fact, it is not. Flaunting one's homosexuality, or letting the boys know the "score" one has with the number of women and/or men in their lives, or the pedophilia's photo albums being shown at a Photography MB session or the alcoholic or drug user that comes in and does the drug and alcohol program for the boy so loaded or stoned he can't stand, but makes his point by being the "visual aid" for the program is anywhere near appropriate, then I have my concerns as well. If I knew (and the boys knew) that one of my ASM's was a practicing homosexual, alcoholic, pedophile, philanderer, or some other form of activity that is considered inappropriate by my standards, (yes, my standards) then either that person or I will be leaving the program. Any organization that allows such activity as being okay, does not have a place for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) If homosexual parade pictures are inappropriate for the forum, and the drunken debauchery of Mardi Gras and Carnival event pictures are inappropriate for the forum, and heterosexual concerns about young teenage girls is inappropriate... If by "inappropriate" you mean that they are removed from the forum, it's not correct to lump these things together. I look at these things on an item-by-item basis and I think the other moderators do as well. I removed one photo, I did not remove the other one. Past "parade" pictures have been left in the forum, although one or two may have been removed, I don't remember. ... why are we allowing the door to open to any of this types of behavior in scouting? If by "we" you mean the BSA, it isn't "allowing the door to open to any of this type of behavior in scouting." The BSA has made clear that sexual activity and discussions of sexual activity are not permitted in Scouting. Edited July 17, 2015 by NJCubScouter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) If my memory serves me, I have only ever removed one photo. It was the same one that NJ removed within the last 24 hours... but was re-posted by the same forum member in a later response. READ my note. Edited July 17, 2015 by packsaddle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 If by "inappropriate" you mean that they are removed from the forum, it's not correct to lump these things together. I look at these things on an item-by-item basis and I think the other moderators do as well. I removed one photo, I did not remove the other one. Past "parade" pictures have been left in the forum, although one or two may have been removed, I don't remember. If by "we" you mean the BSA, it isn't "allowing the door to open to any of this type of behavior in scouting." The BSA has made clear that sexual activity and discussions of sexual activity are not permitted in Scouting. The point being that such activity must constantly be monitored. Not many "family" or Scouting values need such moderation. And as to your tag line? It offers such little comfort because on this Scouting values oriented forum that's exactly what we're doing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Evil and predatory are two different things. One can believe that an activity is immoral, sinful, or evil without it being predatory. Evil can be consensual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) And as to your tag line? It offers such little comfort because on this Scouting values oriented forum that's exactly what we're doing! "We"? Only a very few of "us" seem to be completely consumed and obsessed with things sexual in these forums. I will be very happy to delete any and all such discussion in the future. Is that what you advocate? Edited July 17, 2015 by packsaddle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 The point being that such activity must constantly be monitored. Not many "family" or Scouting values need such moderation. I am not even sure what "activity" you are talking about at this point. The "activity" that was addressed by moderators in this case was placing a photo in the forum that did not belong here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred johnson Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 The two versions of these new rules lacks any real forethought or common sense and will probably result in even more scouts and leaders leaving the program. The CO and ONLY the CO should be the one deciding who are the appropriate candidates for their unit leaders. .National should stick solely to administering scouting and developing new programs, which is their job, instead of dictating and forcing new membership rules that goes against what that CO believes is right for their units. National needs to back off these new requirements and fast before they single handedly destroy what is left of the scouting program that they have been rapidly chipping away at since the 1970's. My apologies. What two versions of these new rules? I'm confused as what BSA is proposing does what you indicate later in your post. BSA is letting the CO and essentially only the CO choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 "We"? Only a very few of "us" seem to be completely consumed and obsessed with things sexual in these forums. I will be very happy to delete any and all such discussion in the future. Is that what you advocate? Making a comment on an observation can not always assumed to be advocating anything. Me thinks the Lady doth..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Someone once said, "If by "we" you mean the BSA, it isn't "allowing the door to open to any of this type of behavior in scouting." The BSA has made clear that sexual activity and discussions of sexual activity are not permitted in Scouting." And, as nothing more than a general observation, the discussion goes on totally oblivious to that indicating that no one has even noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Stosh, if that last post was a response to what I said (which it seems to be), I don't understand what you are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) And as to your tag line? It offers such little comfort because on this Scouting values oriented forum that's exactly what we're doing! Ok, I just realized what that meant. This forum is not "Scouting." It is ABOUT Scouting, mostly. Scouting has its rules, this forum has its own rules (which are few in number) and general practices. We do discuss things here that would not be appropriate to discuss at a troop meeting. But Packsaddle asks a good question: Do you want to change that? Edited July 17, 2015 by NJCubScouter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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