Update On Adult Leadership Standards

[perdidochas]

Excellent point. What do units tell perspective parents when the question comes up, "Does your unit allow gay leaders?" Whether you are for or against this policy change, I suspect both sides what to know what type of unit they are joining. Making this decision now does not give any time for the COs to find out from their national/regional organizations how they will be allowed to function. Few are changing policy without such a directive from on high, so many are in limbo.

 

For an organization driven by membership, again we see the short-sightedness of the timing of this decision. Better planning might have allowed COs to seek guidance in advance of a pending change which could have been communicated to members and perspective members. However, BSA seems to be more reactionary lately rather than thoughtfully planning so as to appease those clamouring for immediate change.

 

Big changes are never done effectively in a short period of time.

 

@@Stosh, while we could all see this coming, the timing was less than transparent. First BSA says "someday", then "soon", then "October" then *poof*, its done in July. That was hardly transparent....or well-planned.

 

Units should tell parents the truth about gay leaders.  If they have them; if they don't have them and never will; or if they don't have them but are open to them,   should be told to parents.

 

That said, this decision should have been made at the same time that the gay scout decision was made. Local option should have been allowed for both youth and adult members.  

[Gone]

Units should tell parents the truth about gay leaders.  If they have them; if they don't have them and never will; or if they don't have them but are open to them,   should be told to parents.

 

That said, this decision should have been made at the same time that the gay scout decision was made. Local option should have been allowed for both youth and adult members.  

 

I'm not going to tell parents anything. That's not my decision. I serve at the pleasure of my CO. They own the charter. They set the standards. If they do or don't want gay leaders then that's THEIR decision, not mine. I am not going to get in to a political situation. I am paid to enforce the rules of the BSA, who now says my CO says who can/can't be members. Until that ruling comes down I have to tell parents that we currently do not allow gay leaders per BSA policy until as such a time as my CO tells me otherwise.

[Stosh]

Units should tell parents the truth about gay leaders.  If they have them; if they don't have them and never will; or if they don't have them but are open to them,   should be told to parents.

 

That said, this decision should have been made at the same time that the gay scout decision was made. Local option should have been allowed for both youth and adult members.  

 

I would be extremely careful of ever telling anyone there are or might be homosexual leaders in the unit.

 

"As part of our comprehensive screening and youth protection efforts, prompt reporting of inappropriate conduct with youth is required of all Scout leaders. The BSA records such allegations in the Ineligible Volunteer Files—whether or not the adults involved were Scout leaders or the youth involved were Scouts. By being proactive and acting upon many kinds of information—including tips and hearsay that cannot be proven in a court of law—the BSA has successfully kept dangerous or potentially dangerous individuals, as well as inappropriate role models, out of our organization."

 

This opens one up to a personal law suit if the parents ever realize that a simply innuendo can terminate a scout leaders eligibility for membership in the BSA.  The term "inappropriate conduct" is not very well, nor legally defined terminology. 

[DigitalScout]

Political Correctness is the un-legislated, un-written law of the land.  If one does not comply they are judged in the court of public opinion of the minority and demonized.  Legilslative law and the US Constitution have been usurped by this process.  If we are a people governed by law, which law is it that takes precident?

 

Tthe court of law and the court of public opinion are not mutually exclusion: the coexist. That's actually the wonderful feature of our First Amendment: the right to express an opinion and the right of others to express their opposition.

[DigitalScout]

I'm not going to tell parents anything. That's not my decision. I serve at the pleasure of my CO. They own the charter. They set the standards. If they do or don't want gay leaders then that's THEIR decision, not mine. I am not going to get in to a political situation. I am paid to enforce the rules of the BSA, who now says my CO says who can/can't be members. Until that ruling comes down I have to tell parents that we currently do not allow gay leaders per BSA policy until as such a time as my CO tells me otherwise.

If the CO's policy is unclear, perhaps you can refer inquiries to the CO rep. Otherwise you may misstate the CO's policy and give parents inaccurate information.

[Gone]

If the CO's policy is unclear, perhaps you can refer inquiries to the CO rep. Otherwise you may misstate the CO's policy and give parents inaccurate information.

 

To be honest, we're not saying anything. That's the problem. We don't have time to give parents accurate info they want and we will lose potential members either way. Thanks BSA.

 

But since the CO has not given any direction yet the original policy still holds until it is changed.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Bad Wolf

[mashmaster]

To be honest, we're not saying anything. That's the problem. We don't have time to give parents accurate info they want and we will lose potential members either way. Thanks BSA.

 

But since the CO has not given any direction yet the original policy still holds until it is changed.

Have you asked?  We talked about the potential with our CO over a year ago about their feeling on the matter, then again when the decision was made.  This should not have been a surprise to anyone as this was one of the leading options when the youth decision was made.  Our CO was clear and decisive on their position early on and reconfirmed it with us last week.

[Eagledad]

BTW - word came down from our CO's church leadership this past weekend - it was a very simple statement:  "We don't discriminate - neither will you"

Bragging as the most self-righteous in the neighborhood is always dangerous because that is when you find that you really do discriminate, especially with youth programs. 

 

Barry

[Gone]

Have you asked?  We talked about the potential with our CO over a year ago about their feeling on the matter, then again when the decision was made.  This should not have been a surprise to anyone as this was one of the leading options when the youth decision was made.  Our CO was clear and decisive on their position early on and reconfirmed it with us last week.

 

Yup. Asked, they said maintain the current policy until told otherwise. But that is not what the parents want to hear when they are signing up. They want to know that they're not joining now only to have to change in a few months.

[mashmaster]

Yup. Asked, they said maintain the current policy until told otherwise. But that is not what the parents want to hear when they are signing up. They want to know that they're not joining now only to have to change in a few months.

We just need to tell them what the current policy is an be transparent.  That way it is up to them to make the decision.  Anything can change in a few months so they are joining on the rules today without any warranty.   If they don't like a change they are always free to join another unit or stop scouting.  We can't control any of that.

[Stosh]

It makes the decision on the part of any hesitant parent a whole lot easier.

[CalicoPenn]

Bragging as the most self-righteous in the neighborhood is always dangerous because that is when you find that you really do discriminate, especially with youth programs. 

 

Barry

 

Not bragging, just stating the position of our CO - and in exactly the way the Pastor expressed it.  The message is pretty unambiguous, and if we do end up discriminating against someone, then shame on us.

[Gone]

Not bragging, just stating the position of our CO - and in exactly the way the Pastor expressed it.  The message is pretty unambiguous, and if we do end up discriminating against someone, then shame on us.

 

So since you discriminate against no one, you allow atheists?

[CalicoPenn]

As I've said before, we don't ask anyone about their faith, or lack thereof - and when we discuss the Scout Oath and Scout Law in these matters, we make clear that it is up to the Boys to determine what God is to them, what their duty to God is, what is meant by doing THEIR best and what how they maintain reverence.  As one of our Scoutmasters once said - we don't care if you believe God is real, if God is a rock, if God is a concept, if God doesn't exist, as long as you respect the beliefs of others on the matter.  If we ask you to tell us how you have done your duty to God, we're not asking you to define God, we're asking how you do your duty to your belief.

[Gone]

As I've said before, we don't ask anyone about their faith, or lack thereof - and when we discuss the Scout Oath and Scout Law in these matters, we make clear that it is up to the Boys to determine what God is to them, what their duty to God is, what is meant by doing THEIR best and what how they maintain reverence.  As one of our Scoutmasters once said - we don't care if you believe God is real, if God is a rock, if God is a concept, if God doesn't exist, as long as you respect the beliefs of others on the matter.  If we ask you to tell us how you have done your duty to God, we're not asking you to define God, we're asking how you do your duty to your belief.

 

That seems to run contrary to BSA membership policies on atheists. So you don't seem to be following BSA policy as required by your charter.