Training Experience Is A Negative?

[SSScout]

Well, it has been my experience that in ANY training, a good instructor/trainer will welcome, indeed encourage sharing of experience from the "audience".

When I took TTT, everyone was surprised to hear about my wife's success using felt boards. No one had any idea what they

were, or how they are used. And with all the hi-tech Powerpoint jazz, the low tech stuff is very good for out in the woods

instruction , Newsprint, markers, dry erase boards, felt boards, etc.

 

Go and share your expertise. I would listen.

[Eagle94-A1]

Well, it has been my experience that in ANY training, a good instructor/trainer will welcome, indeed encourage sharing of experience from the "audience".

 

Last time I put together ITOLs, I wanted the best people I knew teaching the basic skills. I had some buddies who needed to  take ITOLs to be "trained' that had the knowledge, skill, and abilities to teach, so I put them on staff.

 

The scouter who served on summer camp, been to Philmont 2 times, is a geocacher and does orienteering as a hobby, yep taught orienteering.

 

The three beader who was "untrained" becasue he never had the time to take ITOLs ( he went through WB as a Cubmaster)  and can not only outcook anyone I know, but also gives me a run for firebuilding ( I'm still better than him   ) yep taught those skills.

 

The scouter who served on summer camp staff as a youth, was a combat medic, and is an EMT, yep taught first aid.

 

The participant who was active duty Navy and knew his seamanship knots, yep he helped teach knots.

 

 

The only time I EVER discourage sharing experiences and knowledge is when the course is starting to run over.

 

Then it's time for the"parking lot meeting after the meeting."

[oldisnewagain1]

'Round these parts, at least, the training folks aren't about training.  They're the high priesthood of Scouting, there to protect the Good Ol' Boy network from outsiders, interlopers and other assorted heathen and to ensure that only the Chosen receive the coveted third bead or (lowering voice, casting eyes toward ground) a Fourth Bead.

 

I've never notice instructional quality to be one of their hallmarks.

 

So true, so true

Edited July 15, 2015 by oldisnewagain1

[HICO_Eagle]

To be fair, scouters who've taken the Train the Trainer course seem to come back with better presentation skills. Before this course was widely available, some of those presentations were real sleepers.

You think so, huh?  I thought many of the presentations after Train the Trainer were even worse than the ones I had to endure from professional military education.

[Alabama Scouter]

Lots of folks live in mortal fear of public speaking. Poor presentation skills just make a bad powerpoint even more unbearable.

 

Going to a well run Trainer's Edge is a good introduction for the great unwashed that don't do presentations every day in their jobs.

 

Every three years? Ok, spend a day with friends and meet some new ones.

 

I move in and out of District and Council training cycles, sometimes spending years hunkered down in our troop (it's not MINE anymore!) so it's not a big deal to take a class.

 

Giving folks good skills for unit presentations is a good thing. Is every three years too much? Maybe. Why not suggest a way to CLEP the class, like they do now for OLS.

[Stosh]

It's kinda strange that the different programs taught by the Council seem to include asking me to come in and do a session here and there on a particular topic,   They never ask me if I've have had training and they don't ask me to be on the staff, just come in and do various practical seminars on outdoor skills.

 

I'm not quite sure how that works in the real world.

[CalicoPenn]

I find it highly ironic that the same people complaining about Scout's not being able to tie a bowline as an Eagle Scout are complaining about being offered the opportunity to learn new techniques and practice the old.  We know the best way to help a Scout retain the knowledge on how to tie a bowline is repetition and practice.  Why do adults think that once they've been trained that's all they need to do?  Have you taken a CPR course?  Have you maintained your certification by taking it again when the certification expires?  Or is once and I'm good for life your mantra?  Many professions have continuing education requirements.  Are you a Doctor, Lawyer, Real Estate Broker, Architect, Teacher, Hair Dresser?  You likely have continuing education requirements to maintain your license.  Been an MD for 30 years?  You still have to take continuing ed courses to maintain your license. 

 

Is it really that onerous to re-take a course once every three years if you want to help train new BSA leaders? 

[Scouter Matt]

Which came first, the Trainer or the Train the Trainer class?

 

If you have to be a Trained Trainer to teach Train the Trainer, how did anyone ever get Trained?

 

If you don't have to be a Trained Trainer to teach Train the Trainer, why do you need it to teach anything else?

[desertrat77]

I find it highly ironic that the same people complaining about Scout's not being able to tie a bowline as an Eagle Scout are complaining about being offered the opportunity to learn new techniques and practice the old.  We know the best way to help a Scout retain the knowledge on how to tie a bowline is repetition and practice.  Why do adults think that once they've been trained that's all they need to do?  Have you taken a CPR course?  Have you maintained your certification by taking it again when the certification expires?  Or is once and I'm good for life your mantra?  Many professions have continuing education requirements.  Are you a Doctor, Lawyer, Real Estate Broker, Architect, Teacher, Hair Dresser?  You likely have continuing education requirements to maintain your license.  Been an MD for 30 years?  You still have to take continuing ed courses to maintain your license. 

 

Is it really that onerous to re-take a course once every three years if you want to help train new BSA leaders? 

If the training was any good, there would be fewer complaints.   But it usually stinks.  

 

Summary:   content is tedious and of little practical benefit; courses take too long; training cadres tend to be full of themselves and show little respect for the attendees.

 

Give scouters some credit.   They know a waste of time when they see it.   They know they need training.   But they won't tolerate mediocrity and disrespect.

[Gone]

If the training was any good, there would be fewer complaints.   But it usually stinks.  

 

Summary:   content is tedious and of little practical benefit; courses take too long; training cadres tend to be full of themselves and show little respect for the attendees.

 

Give scouters some credit.   They know a waste of time when they see it.   They know they need training.   But they won't tolerate mediocrity and disrespect.

Exactly!!! The training is usually dry, off point, and taught by someone who thinks they know they skill but merely took a class and was "certified" by BSA.

 

I've take. Trainers edge. Learned little. Learned more in grad school about presenting and teaching. Those with zero skills might pick up something but to retake the same training every three years is silly.

 

And yes professions do ask you to take continuing Ed. Few ask you to retake classes which you have already taken. That's why they call it continuing Ed and not repetitive Ed.

[Eagle94-A1]

I think part of the negativity towards redoing training is time. I'm involved with 2 units, plus the district in 2 different capacities.I average 2 meeting per week, plus 1.5 weekend activities per month. That doesn't include round ups and service projects. And that's just Scouts.

 

When folks do not have a lot of time, they will prioritize their activities. Doing training that you've already done and use is on the lower end of priorities.

 

As for "repetitive ed" Yes the nmedical field does require folks to get recertified in certain areas every year to two years. But as we will see next year, things like First Aid and CPR do change periodically. Hence the need.  Also some of the better training programs will kick it up a notch with recertifcations, i.e giving different scenarioes.

[CalicoPenn]

If the training "stinks" then why aren't you holding up your hand and volunteering to be the next training guru for your district?  Let me guess - no time or no desire - so instead just sit back and gripe while the person(s) who are doing the training (who are also sacrificing their time and would likely say they don't have a lot of time either, but are taking away from family time or their own personal time) keep offering the "stinky" training to people taking the training. 

 

Think you could do it better?  Step up and prove it.  Make sure you develop a thick skin while folks follow your example and start to complain how training stinks.

 

I think there is more to this griping than just bad training.  I think I get it - some people just don't like the Boy Scouts of America and it's programming - they don't like National, they don't like Council, they think the volunteers running the Districts, the programming and the training are jokes, they think you can do it all better, that they know better than the 100's of thousands of leaders that have come before them and have helped develop the program, that their standards for BOR's and Eagle Scouts are better than everyone elses.  It just makes me wonder - why do people even bother sticking with an organization that they do nothing but complain about, that they don't want to help make better.  I have a lot more sympathy for the District volunteer that draws back to the Troop level because other Troop leaders do nothing but gripe and moan without stepping up to help out, than I do for the volunteer that never steps up to assist at the District level because they're one of the moaners and complainers and think the District is nothing but some good old boys club that only wants to scold their Troop.

 

Poor training, "good old boys" clubs, poor district events, poor commissioner service will never improve if all people do is sit on the sidelines and gripe. 

[perdidochas]

I find it highly ironic that the same people complaining about Scout's not being able to tie a bowline as an Eagle Scout are complaining about being offered the opportunity to learn new techniques and practice the old.  We know the best way to help a Scout retain the knowledge on how to tie a bowline is repetition and practice.  Why do adults think that once they've been trained that's all they need to do?  Have you taken a CPR course?  Have you maintained your certification by taking it again when the certification expires?  Or is once and I'm good for life your mantra?  Many professions have continuing education requirements.  Are you a Doctor, Lawyer, Real Estate Broker, Architect, Teacher, Hair Dresser?  You likely have continuing education requirements to maintain your license.  Been an MD for 30 years?  You still have to take continuing ed courses to maintain your license. 

 

Is it really that onerous to re-take a course once every three years if you want to help train new BSA leaders? 

 

Well, I think the argument is that they don't want to take an ineffective course more than once.  I will admit, I would balk if I had to take IOLS again from my district.  I learned nothing, and just got irritated with some of the stupidity that they demonstrated (for example, in the dutch oven cooking portion, they used matchlight charcoal in a charcoal chimney for the cooking.  No need for the matchlight at all with the chimney. In addition, all we did in the dutch oven was heat nacho cheese, and reheat browned ground beef.)  I think if the Trainer's Edge course was a valued course, people wouldn't be irritated at having to retake it every three years. 

[desertrat77]

If the training "stinks" then why aren't you holding up your hand and volunteering to be the next training guru for your district?  Let me guess - no time or no desire - so instead just sit back and gripe while the person(s) who are doing the training (who are also sacrificing their time and would likely say they don't have a lot of time either, but are taking away from family time or their own personal time) keep offering the "stinky" training to people taking the training. 

 

Think you could do it better?  Step up and prove it.  Make sure you develop a thick skin while folks follow your example and start to complain how training stinks.

 

I think there is more to this griping than just bad training.  I think I get it - some people just don't like the Boy Scouts of America and it's programming - they don't like National, they don't like Council, they think the volunteers running the Districts, the programming and the training are jokes, they think you can do it all better, that they know better than the 100's of thousands of leaders that have come before them and have helped develop the program, that their standards for BOR's and Eagle Scouts are better than everyone elses.  It just makes me wonder - why do people even bother sticking with an organization that they do nothing but complain about, that they don't want to help make better.  I have a lot more sympathy for the District volunteer that draws back to the Troop level because other Troop leaders do nothing but gripe and moan without stepping up to help out, than I do for the volunteer that never steps up to assist at the District level because they're one of the moaners and complainers and think the District is nothing but some good old boys club that only wants to scold their Troop.

 

Poor training, "good old boys" clubs, poor district events, poor commissioner service will never improve if all people do is sit on the sidelines and gripe. 

We've covered this ground before as well.    

 

Summary:   solid volunteers offer to help and are turned away; can't pass muster with the old boys until you've been there awhile; new volunteers don't bring their professional and personal experience to the district, they have to leave that behind and conform to the "way we've always done it here in X District" and they've always stunk.

 

These bad districts exist.   Happy thoughts, a big smile, a firm handshake, and being a good mixer does not grant one admission into their circle.   One must leave ones expertise outside the door and spend years currying favor with the Olde Boys, agreeing with every idea they have, and otherwise doing business their way.   And their way of doing business stinks, because it is of no value to the units, and as it pertains to the topic, the training is lousy but they are fine with it.  Because it is their opportunity to lord over the unwashed unit level people.   

 

As I've mentioned before, I've been on district staffs in five different councils in five different parts of the country.   Only one of the five matches your Utopian perspective of District Life, and that's because there was only a handful of good people trying to keep the ship afloat, and they welcomed people to join them.   But even then, just the year before there were a couple of Olde Boys on that district staff that ran people off.   The Olde Boys would rather have the ship sink that have someone with no knots or beads come in and run training differently than Good Old Jeff did for many years.   

 

Think about it.   We can't be all defective and malcontents.   Sometimes bad news is true.

Edited August 27, 2015 by desertrat77

[Eagle94-A1]

While I'm not the training chair,  I do help with training. Especially since the current chair has 0 Boy Scout leader expereince, but is cathcing on pretty fast. since he is a troop committee member now.

 

And I think that's part of the problem in my neck of the woods, you have the same people doing multiple jobs and we are burning out, becoming jaded, etc.

 

Take the training chair, CM, troop MC, and training chair.  I'm an pack MC, ASM, CSRT commissioner, and district at large, doing CS program stuff and helping with training since I was the former training chair until Cubs took up a large part of the time. I try to focus on conducting basic training and program, than the multitude of additional training like Trainers' E.D.G.E, because it is stuff I know and done and do not see the value of it when there are new leaders who need to be trained, and programming events that need to be done.

 

Now I do admit I'm stepping back from a lot of my Scouting responsibilities for the next 3-4 months, but that's under doctor's orders. Shoulder surgery sucks.