Stalled At Life

[dfolson]

If you have a Scout that has been at Life for 3 years (16years old) and has stopped working on MBs. Has a draft for an Eagle project but not filled out the workbook. On one hand he says he would like to make it to Eagle, but never seems to make progress.

What would you do? What would you NOT do.

[Gone]

If you have a Scout that has been at Life for 3 years (16years old) and has stopped working on MBs. Has a draft for an Eagle project but not filled out the workbook. On one hand he says he would like to make it to Eagle, but never seems to make progress.

 

What would you do? What would you NOT do.

 

I have one of those, my kid. It's his journey. I say nothing. He will either do it or he won't. He's active....very active. He's just a procrastinator. If he makes it before he turns 18, great! If not, he will learn the lesson of procrastination.

 

I reference Mike Rowe's letter a few years back in response to a dad who wanted Mike to help encourage his son to complete Eagle. Mike's response is classic. I have to admit that after reading that I changed my entire approach to my kid and scouting. He was still a cub back then but now that he's nearly Eagle this has really hit home.

 

He will either do it or he won't. You can drag him or manage him, but the accomplishment won't be his if you do. I have friends who withhold driving or vacation or other things from their kids. Let him make -- and live -- with his own choice....then relax.

[desertrat77]

Bad Wolf, well said.

 

It's up the scout.  

[qwazse]

It's like my sons have an evil twin (triplet?)! From hindsight, if I were you, I would ...

 

1. Not worry.

2. Ask him if it's okay for you to give him occasional nudges as long as he says that's his goal. Remind him there are at lest a half dozen people ready to advise him toward that end.

3. Promise you'll back off if he tells you he doesn't want to hear it.

4. Tell him if he changes his goals, he can just let you know, no strings attached.

5. Help him get his driver's licesne and figure out a way to afford the insurance and fuel. He'll be better able to touch base with counselors, beneficiaries, his work crew, etc ...

6. Talk to him about choosing girlfriends who actually admire his goals.

7. Have him spend time with an Eagle scout. (We shipped Son #2 to Son #1 and his wife several times.)

 

I put in bold the two practical things that I think a dad can do to help a boy regardless of where his in relation to rank advancement.

[Horizon]

It is an interesting question. How much choice and freedom to give a son, a Scout, a child.

 

So you back off, let them miss the Eagle. OK

How about homework? Do you let them get the D, the F, the C? Even though you know the impact it will have if they try to go to college?

Wherefore faith? Do you let them choose their faith, don't require church?

Health - they will feel the impact of obesity. Do you just let them make the choice? If everyone is spending the same amount for dinner, and the fat one goes for the worst food - do you intervene?

 

I am not trying to equate all of these - just brainstorming a list. I am thinking about all of the times when we DO push, or effectively make the decision for those in our charge due to our knowledge and perspective of the long-term impact of their decisions.

 

How much freedom, and consequences, can you handle? SHOULD we handle?

 

Do you let your son quit Scouts because it is uncool? What else will you let them quit? Will you sign the paper letting them drop out of high school?

 

How important is Scouting?

How important is education?

How important is health?

 

I agree - by the way, that pushing someone too much won't do you much good. Too much bribery is also bad. Somewhere in the middle is the encouragement, support, and gentle nudging. All of these are VERY dependent on the youth (or adult). 

[BDPT00]

Do what you've always done for all of the Scout . . . provide opportunities.  If they take advantage of them, great.  If they don't, too bad.  Scouts who have this game figured out will take advantage of opportunities that come their way.  They'll also create their own, and share them with others.

[eagle77]

It is an interesting question. How much choice and freedom to give a son, a Scout, a child.

 

So you back off, let them miss the Eagle. OK

How about homework? Do you let them get the D, the F, the C? Even though you know the impact it will have if they try to go to college?

Wherefore faith? Do you let them choose their faith, don't require church?

Health - they will feel the impact of obesity. Do you just let them make the choice? If everyone is spending the same amount for dinner, and the fat one goes for the worst food - do you intervene?

 

I am not trying to equate all of these - just brainstorming a list. I am thinking about all of the times when we DO push, or effectively make the decision for those in our charge due to our knowledge and perspective of the long-term impact of their decisions.

 

How much freedom, and consequences, can you handle? SHOULD we handle?

 

Do you let your son quit Scouts because it is uncool? What else will you let them quit? Will you sign the paper letting them drop out of high school?

 

How important is Scouting?

How important is education?

How important is health?

 

I agree - by the way, that pushing someone too much won't do you much good. Too much bribery is also bad. Somewhere in the middle is the encouragement, support, and gentle nudging. All of these are VERY dependent on the youth (or adult). 

 

 So we are going to compare an extra curricular activity to education, health, and faith? Let's replace scouting with say football or band. As a parent I expect my children to their best at what they try to do. "Their best" not what I think their best should be. If by that time in their life I cannot tell what their best is or isn't then I have not been much of a parent then.

[Horizon]

 So we are going to compare an extra curricular activity to education, health, and faith? Let's replace scouting with say football or band. As a parent I expect my children to their best at what they try to do. "Their best" not what I think their best should be. If by that time in their life I cannot tell what their best is or isn't then I have not been much of a parent then.

 

I guess I have always put Scouting at higher than other extra curriculars - closer to faith for me as Scouting WAS my church growing up.

 

Buts lets think about that comparison some more: 

I don't accept less than 100% on the field when I coach, why should expect anything less than 100% from Scouting. I KNOW that the boy is capable of more - so how much do I leave him alone?

[packsaddle]

Me too. Mine was almost done with Life (or maybe it was Star, can't remember really). He wanted to call it quits. I told him that he was mostly done with whatever rank he was working on and that I would support his decision to call it quits IF he agreed to finish the rank he had started. I told him it was important to follow through on things that you start, if possible.

So he completed that rank and in the process...decided to go the rest of the way to Eagle. This was the time in his life that he was making a lot of decisions academically as well. I might have been just lucky but from that time forward, my wife and I never had to lift a finger...he took control of every aspect of his life and did well at all of his future challenges.

 

To me this is one of those hard things as a parent, first to acknowledge the need to let them take the lead and then to back off when they do it. You just have to hope it works out and 'be there' for them if they stumble.

[Stosh]

No one should have to prod a boy to get Eagle.  If he does get Eagle under those conditions, it is only to please those prodding.  It's okay not to get Eagle if the boy isn't interested in getting it.   Oooooh, but he's so close?  So what.  Adults need to MYOB when it comes to other peoples' choice in life.

[NJCubScouter]

I've been there, in both roles in the story.

 

When I was a 16-year-old Life Scout, I made a conscious decision that I was not going to do the work necessary to make Eagle, and I didn't. It was not that I was done with Scouting - I remained a Scout until my 18th birthday and was then an ASM until I started college. In my last two years in the troop I was SPL, JASM and went to Philmont. I just decided to give priority to leadership in the troop and to non-Scouting activities, rather than advancement. My father, who was the Scoutmaster, was disappointed with this, but he didn't try to push me. I think he had a direct conversation with me about it exactly once, and when he got the answer he wasn't looking for, didn't bother me about it again. (Well, he did, later, I was still hearing about it in my late 40's. My youngest brother had taken a LITTLE of the heat off by making Eagle himself, but not all of it.)

 

I did somewhat regret my decision later, but that was long after there was anything I could do about it. I did think about what my father did and didn't do, and had to conclude that he did the right thing by letting me make my own decision and not pushing me, however foolish my decision may have seemed to him.

 

So now (well, not NOW, my son is 23 now) I'm a father and troop committee member with a son who made Life at 15 and proceeded to procrastinate in a spectacular fashion. His story sounds much like that of your son. He wanted to do it, he just was doing it v e r y s l o w l y, and there were times when he decided he wasn't going to make it, at which time(s) I left him alone. Then he would start working on it again, and I would encourage him. I won't tell the whole story, suffice it to say that he did make it, and made it legitimately, but did it in a way that has become somewhat legendary in our troop. (Don't wait until the last minute, like ____________.") He packed a LOT of work, and a lot of paperwork, into the last 2 months before his birthday, and especially the last 3 weeks, which is when he actually did his project. About a month before his birthday, the general consensus was that there was no hope, but he did it anyway. It wasn't just the project, there were still a couple of required MB's up in the air.

 

So, what about me? I was probably a bit more involved than I should have been. But I can honestly say that HE did the work. I did provide encouragement and advice, which I probably should have left to other leaders (and he got it from them too.) I was concerned that while I wanted him to make it, it needed to be HIS accomplishment. And in the end it was... with perhaps a little more "help" from Dad than would have been ideal, but it was still still his accomplishment.

 

I don't know if that helps. It's not an easy thing, at least it wasn't for me.

[MattR]

What I would do: make sure the boy is still enjoying scouts (high adventure trips) If not, forget it, it's over. If so, he is going through what we call slacker phase. If he wants it he will complete it. Nearly all do.

 

What I would not do: bribe him (car for Eagle) or threaten him (no license until Eagle) or incessantly nag him about how wonderful Eagle is. I've had a number of scouts in slacker phase turn it around just about when the parents gave up and left them alone.

[eagle77]

I guess I have always put Scouting at higher than other extra curriculars - closer to faith for me as Scouting WAS my church growing up.

 

Buts lets think about that comparison some more: 

I don't accept less than 100% on the field when I coach, why should expect anything less than 100% from Scouting. I KNOW that the boy is capable of more - so how much do I leave him alone?

 

 My son was a Life scout needed only two MB and his project to complete Eagle. But he was involved in another activity that he really loved and enjoyed doing, and was really quite good at it too. Problem was he would have to do one or the other no way could he do both and get out of either what he wanted. Being an Eagle scout myself I would have loved to have seen him earn Eagle as well, but I also saw how very good he was at the other activity, but even more how much he loved doing it. When he asked to talk to me about it we sat and discussed it. All I could tell him was he needed to make this choice himself, no matter which way he would decide I would support and stand by his choice. I can not describe to you the look of relief that came over him at that moment. Yes he could have done 50% of scouting and 50% of the other, but all he really would have gotten out of it would have been 100% of nothing. Sometimes we just need to put the percentages away and just let our children have fun and learn as they grow, but more then anything being understanding and supportive of some of the choices that they make while maturing.

 

   When I was a coach I expected players to do their best and have 100% fun, its a game they are playing. Until we teach our youth that it doesn't matter if we win or lose its just having fun that is the most important part of playing games. I guess that comes easy for somebody right outside of Philly, God knows we have learned how to lose.

[DuctTape]

If by the time a boy makes it to life he hasnt internalized a meaning or drive ir what have you for Eagle, then the entire process from the beginning was lost on him. Many laugh at me when I bring up the 1911 handbook and say it is outdated, times have changed etc... I disagree, I believe the values espoused, specifically the "boys learning to do things for themselves" as the primary (sole) purpose of Scouting as the hb describes, it is those things which allow a scout to live up to his duty. Too much time and energy is focused on the abstract "values" and ethical decisions and not on the practical application. If by the time a boy has reached life scout and does not desire nor have the knowledge, skill, and understanding to complete the rest of his journey on his own (knowing and turning to resources for help of course) then he hasnt demonstrated fulfillment of the mission of scouting let alone demonstrated fulfillment of its highest award. The awards beyond first class rank are a fulfillment of Scoutings purpose, the practical application. IMO, the most important requirements are the most pencil whipped. Not the scoutcraft, or POR, but Demonstrating Scout Spirit. The boy's practical application of Scoutings mission and purpose. Do a good turn daily is too often just a phrase and rarely manifests itself in reality.

[Stosh]

Scouts who have the right attitude towards life don't need an Eagle medal to tell them they are great scouts.  

 

Whenever someone does something extraordinary around me I always ask if they were ever a scout.  Occasionally I get yes, I am an Eagle.  But more often than not I get, yes, BUT I only got to FC or Star, or Life as if they didn't finish.... Well what they just did proved otherwise.