S/o Camping Reuirements

[christineka]

So it turns out son has to camp 20 nights with his boy scout troop in order to earn the required camping badge.  As a little 12 year old, should he just keep bugging those in charge to go camping or something?  He's set to earn life next month and hoped to move on to earn eagle within the minimum time required.  (He will certainly remain active in scouts after that.)  Guess that possible new requirement of having the boys learn what is required for each rank would have been handy in son's case.  He would have known earlier to attempt to get camping in.  Or maybe he should just go join some other troop in order to get camping fulfilled?

[Eagle94-A1]

Isn't it listed in the MB requirements?

[fred johnson]

The wording on the requirement is the best guidance.  "at a designated Scouting activity or event".   Does not need to be with his troop.  So, have you son ask other troops if he can camp with them at some camp outs.  Camp at summer camp with a lone-star scout troop, i.e. made up of other scouts that can't go with their own troop for some reason.  Go to the district camporee and camp there.  Look for any and every special opportunity to camp at scouting events and/or activities.  ... Essentially, even if your troop does not camp enough, look for every opportunity to camp that you can find.  

 

My only recommendation is that your son talk with his scoutmaster about what he plans to do to complete the requirement.  Even though the scoutmaster really has nothing to do with the merit badge program, the SM can make life difficult.  Likewise, the scoutmaster can be a non-issue if you keep him included in the plans.  

Edited July 8, 2015 by fred johnson

[NJCubScouter]

christineka, I am going to try to ignore some of the things in your post, such as your 12-year-old almost-Life Scout who is in a hurry to make sure that no more than the minimum 6 months pass between his Life BOR and making Eagle. I am not sure some of the other forum members will be able to ignore it. (And I guess I didn't succeed in completely ignoring it, either. But I will make no further comment about it and try to answer your actual question.)

 

If your son's troop has gone camping only once in six months as you said in the other thread, and if that turns out to be their usual pace (and hopefully they issue a calendar so you can know when they're going camping), then I do not think the troop is truly delivering a Scouting program. Opinions may differ as to what the minimum is, the BSA probably has an idea (probably whatever the lowest number on the lowest level of Journey to Excellence), but as someone else said in the other thread, many troops camp 10 to 12 times a year. Our troop camps 10 times a year, one of which is the week-long summer camp. (By troop tradition we don't camp in December, which is not to avoid the cold because if they were doing that they would probably skip February instead; it's just the way it is, and we don't camp in August.) I don't see how you can have a full Scouting program camping much less than that. A by-product (though not the goal) of a full camping schedule is that there are plenty of opportunities to fulfill various advancement requirements, including the 20 nights for Camping MB, and the camping requirements for OA.

 

So a change needs to be made. How you go about doing that varies from troop to troop, and since you are in an LDS troop there may be things about the decision-making structure that I do not understand, and I will not try to guess. If there is a functioning troop committee, you might volunteer to join it. If there is a functioning PLC, your son can try to make his voice heard there, if he is in a position to do so. If he is not on the PLC, he can talk to his patrol leader, who is. If your son wants to join another troop that has a real camping schedule, and if there is an opportunity to do so, it might not be a bad idea.

[christineka]

I have not heard that there is a functioning plc. There's a PL, but this troop is very much adult-led.  It seems the PL's duty is just to welcome boys and give out announcements as he is told by scoutmaster.  They have scouts two nights a month.  No boys wear their shirts, except mine still is wearing his, though he's been only wearing the shirt lately, when he used to wear the pants and hat.  Son has asked for blue cards to work on merit badges, but sm says "no".  Because the 11 year old leader was awesome, he's got more than half of his eagle required badges done.  

 

I don't see the problem with earning eagle asap.  Care to enlighten me?  As far as I know, he's met the requirements for where he is now.  He just needs to teach with the EDGE method in order to earn life.  

 

So, son does not actually have to join another troop to camp with them and have it count for the camping badge?  Does summer camp count?  I thought it didn't, but his accrued camping nights don't add up.  (6- I know he went three at 11 and the once more at 12.  If summer camp counts, then it should be 5 more, since he did go last year.)  Son needs 14 nights according to the sheet sm printed out.  If his troop stated now camping out once a month, he'd have over a year before he can earn that badge.  

 

No, the church troop is not being particularly active or scout-like.  

Edited July 8, 2015 by christineka

[Eagle94-A1]

Currently 3 camp outs are needed in order to get First Class, so if he's been only on 1 camp out, he should not be First class, let alone. Star.

 

 

As for pushing to Eagle ASAP, those of us who have been in a while have seen too many cases of "Eagles" who couldn't tell you about a single thing they did for any of their MBs. In one instance, when an EBOR that denied one Scout the Eagle rank because his family "pencil-whipped" the MBs found out that National granted his appeal, Not only did the district's EBOR resign in protest, the entire district advancement committee did so as well.

 

In all honesty there have been only a handful of young Eagles that have truly mastered the knowledge, skills and have the abilities to meet teh Eagle requirements.

 

Also let me tell you the Tale of Two Eagles.

 

The first Eagle Scout was the son of an Eagle. Dad pushed and pushed his son to get Eagle ASAP. And son did just that; he got Eagle at 13 and left the program after that.

 

The second Eagle was the the first Eagle's cousin. Uncle also pushed him to get Eagle ASAP. And he was well on his way to getting Eagle at 14. But something happened. First he got selected by his troop to do the NYLT of his day, and he had a blast. He then went to Jamboree and did a 50 miler in Canada, again having fun. Then he got into the OA.  He was having so much fun, as well as giving back to his troop, that 5 years past between earning Life and finally earning Eagle.

 

Which Eagle do you think had more fun, my cousin who got it at 13, or me you got it at 18?

[christineka]

Currently 3 camp outs are needed in order to get First Class, so if he's been only on 1 camp out, he should not be First class, let alone. Star.

 

 

He went on 3 campouts when he was 11.  Only one since turning 12.  In lds scouts, the 11 year olds are kept separate from the 12-17 year olds.

 

I know he knows what he's done for all the merit badges he currently has attained.  They all had some hard work involved, despite the fact that some had been interests of his.  

[eagle77]

 My suggestion would be to find the nearest "Eagle Mill" troop where the only priorority is completing requirements. Fun and expierence are secondary there. Because that is what your son really wants isn't it?

[christineka]

 My suggestion would be to find the nearest "Eagle Mill" troop where the only priorority is completing requirements. Fun and expierence are secondary there. Because that is what your son really wants isn't it?

 

Of course not.  He has to do his eagle requirements at home, except for the position of responsibility and camping.  His troop wouldn't even give him a real position of responsibility- just told him to keep being bugler, except they hate bugling.  He would like fun, but also be allowed to go camping and do merit badges.

[qwazse]

For the merit badge, the nights (up to 6 max) from only one long-term camp count toward the 20. The remaining nights should be from short-term (no longer than 4 days at a time) camping trips. (Look here for more gory details and painfully hashed out arguments: http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2015/06/24/ask-expert-isnt-camping-night-camping-mb/.)

 

Yes they may be with another troop. Or with just his patrol.

 

It brings a tear to my eye to hear of a troop who doesn't camp regularly. It brings my palm to my face to hear of a troop who forgoes uniform.

 

In either case, no excuses to your son. He gets to decide what kind of scout he wants to be. And if it means swimming upstream for the good of the troop, so be it. He needs to explain to his SM "This troop should be camping every month, and I'm your guy to make it happen. Can I see if there's another 4 to 7 boys willing to join me, while you find a couple of trustworthy adults willing to camp?"

 

Second best: he needs to call around to other SM's to see if he can join with one of their patrols on some troop camp outs.

 

If he's able to do this, and he demonstrates the skills to get the other boys up to speed, I got no problems with him being awarded Eagle by February.

 

The position of responsibility has to be something other than bugler, but it would be a hard-headed SM who would not want to give a boy like that a PL patch.

 

If all of this is too overwhelming for him, that's okay. He can wait few years while those nights slowly accrue.

Edited July 9, 2015 by qwazse

[Twocubdad]

The program your son's troop is running is not Boy Scouts.  But neither is the program you have cobbled together for him.  There is more to Scouting than pounding out requirements with your mom.  But you clearly don't want to hear that.

 

Find a real troop, register your son and then leave them both alone.

[desertrat77]

The program your son's troop is running is not Boy Scouts.  But neither is the program you have cobbled together for him.  There is more to Scouting than pounding out requirements with your mom.  But you clearly don't want to hear that.

 

Find a real troop, register your son and then leave them both alone.

Concur 100 percent.

[christineka]

The program your son's troop is running is not Boy Scouts.  But neither is the program you have cobbled together for him.  There is more to Scouting than pounding out requirements with your mom.  But you clearly don't want to hear that.

 

Find a real troop, register your son and then leave them both alone.

 

  He does not pound out requirements for me.  The ones I've been bugging him to get finished are the prerequisites for camp (camp is Monday and this stuff really needs to get finished) and then finishing up merit badges that are almost finished.  The only eagle required of that lot is family life.  He has to run that family meeting. He's the one saying he can earn eagle by 13.  

 

Still- his troop is NOT being very scout-like with their ways.  Two meetings per month.  If they even work on a badge, it's because sm chose it.  (They're doing first aid because some boys are doing first aid at camp.  My son has first aid, but it's the kind of thing that's great to review.)  Most of the time they play kick ball or deal with stuff like fundraising or going through troop equipment.  When is he supposed to be working on merit badges if not away from the troop?  The troop isn't doing a whole lot.  Court of honor was a couple weeks ago.  The previous one was in September.  All boys 13+ earned one merit badge, if any.  (The 11 and 12 year olds earned a ton in 11 year old patrol.)  That's 9 months to earn one merit badge.  While I'm sure scouts is more than earning merit badges, I kinda think they should be in the program somewhere.  

 

Why not join a troop that would give my son a real position of responsibility and actually expect him to do it?  Or a troop that goes camping, does service, and has other fun scout experiences?  If he doesn't have such a troop, why not work on stuff at home?  Would it be better that I encourage him to do nothing more than what he does at scouts, even though that won't ever earn him an eagle?

[christineka]

The program your son's troop is running is not Boy Scouts.  But neither is the program you have cobbled together for him.  There is more to Scouting than pounding out requirements with your mom.  But you clearly don't want to hear that.

 

Find a real troop, register your son and then leave them both alone.

 

What in the world do you think I'm doing with my son?  I'm quite certain that what you think I'm doing is not actually what I am doing?  I spend most days reminding him to practice piano and do his chores.  This past week I've also been reminding him to get his 4h story finished, write his letters to potential buyers (he's raising a lamb) AND yes, finish up the prerequisites for camp, which is Monday!!!  (He's only got the wilderness survival kit left and as far as I can tell it involves me going shopping for all the stuff he needs.  I may leave that for his father to do on Saturday 'cause I'm hot, tired, super duper pregnant, and main street construction makes going to walmart insane.)  

 

Forgot- I also take him to the lamb pen twice a day with his sisters to take care of his lamb.  I also remind him to work there, too.  He chose to raise the lamb.  I didn't force anyone.  

Edited July 9, 2015 by christineka

[eagle77]

  He does not pound out requirements for me.  The ones I've been bugging him to get finished are the prerequisites for camp (camp is Monday and this stuff really needs to get finished) and then finishing up merit badges that are almost finished.  The only eagle required of that lot is family life.  He has to run that family meeting. He's the one saying he can earn eagle by 13.  

 

 No comment.

 

Still- his troop is NOT being very scout-like with their ways.  Two meetings per month.  If they even work on a badge, it's because sm chose it.  (They're doing first aid because some boys are doing first aid at camp.  My son has first aid, but it's the kind of thing that's great to review.)  Most of the time they play kick ball or deal with stuff like fundraising or going through troop equipment.  When is he supposed to be working on merit badges if not away from the troop?  The troop isn't doing a whole lot.  Court of honor was a couple weeks ago.  The previous one was in September.  All boys 13+ earned one merit badge, if any.  (The 11 and 12 year olds earned a ton in 11 year old patrol.)  That's 9 months to earn one merit badge.  While I'm sure scouts is more than earning merit badges, I kinda think they should be in the program somewhere.

 

 Then why is your son in this troop?

 

Why not join a troop that would give my son a real position of responsibility and actually expect him to do it?  Or a troop that goes camping, does service, and has other fun scout experiences?  If he doesn't have such a troop, why not work on stuff at home?  Would it be better that I encourage him to do nothing more than what he does at scouts, even though that won't ever earn him an eagle?

 

  Then why is your son still in this troop? If your son's SM doesn't give him blue cards for merit badges, how does he have all these badges done and how does he know who to see as the MBC?