Boooorring!

[NJCubScouter]

I have moved this thread to Issues and Politics because it has gotten into actual discussion of specific "issues" that do not belong in Open Discussion.

[Horizon]

Surely there are/were BSA patches with a confederate flag on them.  Post those pictures!

 

Have to find them in my son's Jambo stash from 2010. He came back with a set of patches using the battle flag as their main design element.

[RememberSchiff]

Surely there are/were BSA patches with a confederate flag on them.  Post those pictures!

 

I think National (CSE Ben Love) banned the confederate/flag and emblems back in the 90's. The only flag to display was the US flag.

[Gone]

Surely there are/were BSA patches with a confederate flag on them.  Post those pictures!

 

Here are a few offered as Historic Trail patches. Some are backed by a council, others not.

 

 

Here are several trails listed here as "official" historic trails linked with BSA. If I recall correctly, several have either the battle flag or reference to other "no-no" Confederate regalia.

[Eagle94-A1]

I want to say it was mid to late 1990s when the ban went into effect.

 

here is a 1990 camporee patch

http://www.ebay.com/itm/East-Carolina-Council-1990-Camporee-Tar-Heels-H2292-/201371801269?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ee2b1d6b5

 

I want to say this was the last official CSP from my council with it http://www.ebay.com/itm/MINT-CSP-East-Carolina-Council-S-5-/291502226712?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43dee2fd18

 

 

This troop got into some major trouble with national and the council with this one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/East-Carolina-Council-2005-Jamboree-Troop-12-SMY-JSP-patch-gQ-/231606288588?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35eccf80cc

 

I want to say this was the first CSP with it http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-East-Carolina-Council-Rare-Scout-Shoulder-Patch-CSP-/200431103970?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eaa9fefe2

[Eagledad]

 

But regarding enrollment, I admit no such irony. There is no one who has produced causal evidence of much of anything. It's all correlation and speculation. Which is why, to me at least, such endless discussions about enrollment numbers are both fruitless and boring.

 

Of course, that makes it easy to disregard. But history of other youth scouting programs show the evidence, so it doesn't require a brainiac to figure it out. Remember the days that posters came on this board pontificating that all the BSA had to do was to be more inclusive to raise the numbers. The few of us who knew the facts and history laughed. Sadly we are right, but we aren't laughing because truth hurts. Far more boys will not get the opportunity to be a scout than those that were saved by self-serving activist. 

 

You can say it all you want, but the BSA didn't do this to themselves. The were used for a much bigger agenda.

 

Barry

[CalicoPenn]

Is it just me or do those "tar heels" on those patches look like women's high heel shoes of the "Music Man" era?

 

My favorite council jamboree patches come from Iowa - home of Riverside, Iowa, which is, as anyone with any taste knows, is the birthplace of Captain James Tiberious Kirk.  

 

https://sites.google.com/site/2010nationalscoutjamboree/hawkeye-area-council

[fred johnson]

My favorite council jamboree patches come from Iowa - home of Riverside, Iowa, which is, as anyone with any taste knows, is the birthplace of Captain James Tiberious Kirk.  

 

https://sites.google.com/site/2010nationalscoutjamboree/hawkeye-area-council

 

I so so so so want a set of those patches.   So cool.   

[jr56]

While on Jamboree staff in 2001, we decided to respect all wishes and fly an Amercian flag, and a Confederate flag from the tent.  We looked all over Fredericksburg and coouldn't find a confederate flag anywhere.  Oh well........

[Gone]

While on Jamboree staff in 2001, we decided to respect all wishes and fly an Amercian flag, and a Confederate flag from the tent.  We looked all over Fredericksburg and coouldn't find a confederate flag anywhere.  Oh well........

 

Really? I was there this Christmas and it looked like the Army of Northern Virginia was not only in town, but had been there for about 25 years. Couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting someone flying the battle flag or the stars and bars.

 

I wonder if it is just the battle flag that has everyone's knickers in a bunch, or if it is ANY of the Confederate flags that wind them up....or would they even recognize the stars and bars. 

[CalicoPenn]

Actually, most people aren't flying the Confederate Battle Flag (aka the Battle Flag of the Northern Virginia Army).  Even the flag on the South Carolina capitol building is not the Battle Flag.  The flag on top of the General Lee?  Not the Battle Flag.  The Confederate Battle Flag is square, not a rectangle.  Yes, that is an important distinction because there was also a rectangular flag during the Civil War of the same design - and it would not have been flown over a land battlefield.  The rectangular flag, which is the one almost everyone flies, including South Carolina on their capitol building and the one painted on top of the General Lee, is the Confederate Navy Jack. 

 

Bad Wolf - I suspect it's only the Battle Flag/Navy Jack that's the big problem - and mostly because they were essentially museum pieces until the late 1950's and early 1960's when they re-emerged as semi-official flags of various southern governments that started flying them in response to the civil rights laws that these folks opposed.  The crux of today's argument that the flag is a symbol of racism can be traced to that time in our history - prior to that time, while it was stained by the awfulness of slavery, it wasn't automatically associated with racism and hatred as it is today.  I doubt most people would even recognize the National flags of the Confederacy.

[CalicoPenn]

I so so so so want a set of those patches.   So cool.   

 

I got most of them from a Star Trek museum in little Riverside, Iowa a few years back - they are cool to look at (and finally overtook the shark lodge flap from the Malibu Lodge that I have).

[Twocubdad]

Twocubdad, you only have yourself to blame for this thread.

You're welcome. The popcorn will be ready in a minute or two.

[Gone]

Actually, most people aren't flying the Confederate Battle Flag (aka the Battle Flag of the Northern Virginia Army).  Even the flag on the South Carolina capitol building is not the Battle Flag.  The flag on top of the General Lee?  Not the Battle Flag.  The Confederate Battle Flag is square, not a rectangle.  Yes, that is an important distinction because there was also a rectangular flag during the Civil War of the same design - and it would not have been flown over a land battlefield.  The rectangular flag, which is the one almost everyone flies, including South Carolina on their capitol building and the one painted on top of the General Lee, is the Confederate Navy Jack.

Not a distinction most Americans would make, though historically accurate. I think colloquially most people know the Navy Jack as the "battle flag"...drives reenactor friends bonkers.

 

Bad Wolf - I suspect it's only the Battle Flag/Navy Jack that's the big problem - and mostly because they were essentially museum pieces until the late 1950's and early 1960's when they re-emerged as semi-official flags of various southern governments that started flying them in response to the civil rights laws that these folks opposed.  The crux of today's argument that the flag is a symbol of racism can be traced to that time in our history - prior to that time, while it was stained by the awfulness of slavery, it wasn't automatically associated with racism and hatred as it is today.  I doubt most people would even recognize the National flags of the Confederacy.

But the argument you hear most people making is that the flag (Navy Jack/Battle Flag) hearkens back to a period of our history which is abhorrent to many. Funny thing is, they are not talking about the 1950s/60s and the segregationist movement, but rather the whole Civil War era. I could almost buy the argument, "We are against the flag because racists used it as a banner during the 1950s" but that's not the sole argument. When those opposing the flag cite the whole Civil War era as a reason for wanting to bar the flag, you open the door to eliminating ANY of the flags flown by the Confederacy because of what they may represent to blacks. That would mean the Citadel flag, the SC state flag, stars and bars and many other flags would then come under similar scrutiny.

 

Once you open THAT door, what happens if Native Americans come forward and claim to be injured by the institutional racism -- and even genocide -- that happened under the stars and stripes? The Latin Americans?

 

How long until the national flag is "redesigned" to be more multi-cultural and non-offensive to everyone? 

 

I hope that day never comes.

[HICO_Eagle]

Is it just me or do those "tar heels" on those patches look like women's high heel shoes of the "Music Man" era?

 

My favorite council jamboree patches come from Iowa - home of Riverside, Iowa, which is, as anyone with any taste knows, is the birthplace of Captain James Tiberious Kirk.  

 

https://sites.google.com/site/2010nationalscoutjamboree/hawkeye-area-council

I like the fact they're using "NCC-1701, no bloody -A, -B, -C, or -D!"

 

I'd trade you a set of our Pikes Peak Council Stargate Jamboree patches for a set of those.

 

2010:

2013:

 

I have to check my inventory, think I only have the 2010s left for trading (I liked them best anyway).