Who Approves Merit Badges?

[Twocubdad]

Stosh,

 

You're a Civil War reinactor, right?  You know how the best surgeons were the ones who could cleanly amputate a leg in three minutes?  There's your model.

 

If you try to get off in the weeds with policy, someone is going to throw the once and done stuff at you.  That was my caveat about involving the district advancement chairman.

 

Sit down with the Scout AND his parents.  This falls under both Trustworthy and Obedient.  The rules were not followed by the other troop.  Both you and the Scout are on your honor to do what is right and what is right is to back up and complete the requirements properly with the troop.  As a show of good faith, perhaps you have his PL standing by to go through and sign off all the requirements the Scout has completed to the troop's satisfaction.   

[JoeBob]

One of my Scouts came to me with a filled blue card for cooking MB done with another troop.  I had no prior knowledge that he was planning to do this.  He wanted me to sign off on the badge; but I had absolutely no idea that any of the work was done or who any of the signatures were.  I told him to have the SM eMail or call me, and I'd happily sign it.  Never heard anything.

The mother was a big fan of MB days and speedy advancement, so I was a little suspicious.  

That Scout transferred to the the other troop, while his big brother stayed with us.

[TAHAWK]

One of my Scouts came to me with a filled blue card for cooking MB done with another troop.  I had no prior knowledge that he was planning to do this.  He wanted me to sign off on the badge; but I had absolutely no idea that any of the work was done or who any of the signatures were.  I told him to have the SM eMail or call me, and I'd happily sign it.  Never heard anything.

The mother was a big fan of MB days and speedy advancement, so I was a little suspicious.  

That Scout transferred to the the other troop, while his big brother stayed with us.

 

The issue for me would be, "Did he do the work?"  The Blue Card should have had the MBC's telephone number.  He's the one to answer my question, not the other SM.  If the work was done, the SM is to sign.

[Gone]

One of my Scouts came to me with a filled blue card for cooking MB done with another troop.  I had no prior knowledge that he was planning to do this.  He wanted me to sign off on the badge; but I had absolutely no idea that any of the work was done or who any of the signatures were.  I told him to have the SM eMail or call me, and I'd happily sign it.  Never heard anything.

The mother was a big fan of MB days and speedy advancement, so I was a little suspicious.  

That Scout transferred to the the other troop, while his big brother stayed with us.

Had the same issue. Sat down with Scout and parents and asked him to walk us through his cooking. There was no way given the number of times he said he cooked that he could have completed the TF, SC and FC cooking requirements AND the cooking MB requirements. Got signed off at an MB college and the MBC never confirmed he did the work. Worked with the scout and parents to correct the problem and move forward.

 

Folks who want the "fast track" know not to join our unit. Those few who do and don't like it know where the door is.

[TAHAWK]

It is an endless source of wonder to me that parents could think that teaching their son to, essentially, cheat is good preparation for life in general.  Politics?  Maybe.

[Stosh]

I wasn't particularly impressed with the idea that he went off with another troop without the courtesy of notifying me.  But we are boy led and it didn't happen.  I do have to deal with the consequences in either case, courtesy or not.

 

He did not discuss any MB's with me other than those he was taking with our troop.

 

Here's the problem: He has been at the scout rank now for over a year.  He is just starting his second year of scouts, but he has hit and miss requirements done for T-FC.  But with last year's summer camp, this year's double summer camp and a couple of MB days under his belt,  he thinks he's done with 2nd class and has 17 MB's.  Not bad for a scout starting his second year.

 

He was the PL until last week when at camp they elected the new Webelos crossover boy to be the PL and he stepped down. 

 

 

By the way, this is the same boy who was at the latrine working on his knots out of the book and couldn't tie either the double half-hitch nor the taunt-line knots.  He's also the boy who had a melt-down in the center of camp when he yelled at the top of his lungs that he didn't need a buddy and he was heading to the waterfront alone.  His buddy got swimming MB and Small Boat MB anyway.  This boy is under way too much pressure to succeed and it's getting to him.  Lots of Eagles in his family.

 

One of the pitfalls of a boy-led, patrol-method approach is it is difficult to curtail such energy in the process.  At first it looks impressive, but in the long run it is quite harmful to the individual scout.  This boy has has a lot of SMC's in the past few months and even then the communication is pretty much one sided.

[qwazse]

Now that I consider @@Stosh's situation in specific,I'd agree that his and his committee's signature on SMCs and BORs are the only valid and final ones. The 2nd BoR deal was only a strategy to work around time constraints ... and his scout doesn't have any.

The PL's signatures on the other requirements should do. But, if you have doubts about the temporary PL at camp, have the boy demonstrate what he's learned.

 

In response to the latest post: I'd be more concerned to get a word with the temporary SM about any behavior issues. If they happened only on week 1, fine. Chalk it up to prepubescent anxt, male PMS, whatever. If they recurred, a word with the parents is in order.

Edited June 28, 2015 by qwazse

[Stosh]

Now that I consider @@Stosh's situation in specific,I'd agree that his and his committee's signature on SMCs and BORs are the only valid and final ones. The 2nd BoR deal was only a strategy to work around time constraints ... and his scout doesn't have any.

The PL's signatures on the other requirements should do. But, if you have doubts about the temporary PL at camp, have the boy demonstrate what he's learned.

 

Up until yesterday when he stepped down, he WAS the PL of our small troop (1 patrol).  I have signed off on all of his requirements, but he can sign off on any of his patrol member's requirements.  I have not been holding back on him either.  He has more requirements filled than any other scout in the troop.

 

I have been to the other camp where he attended with the other troop and I do believe the material I will be identified as instructed but not signed off as is the first year program of most summer camps.  As long as no one has signed his book, I have recourse and yet in light of all of that, why would the other troop even consider a BOR?  I just hope these adults haven't hyped up his expectations beyond what is allowed and is acceptable with BSA policy.  In no way possible would I have ever considered doing a BOR for a boy registered with another troop unless it was a dual registration.

 

I guess it's just a sticky wicket because the adults have gotten themselves embroiled in the process and that has never worked out well in the long run for any scout.

[qwazse]

Sounds like he might want to transfer to the other troop. It could be as simple as him needing older scouts to guide him.

Get the full story before spouting off policy.

[Stosh]

Sounds like he might want to transfer to the other troop. It could be as simple as him needing older scouts to guide him.

Get the full story before spouting off policy.

 

I doubt it.  The other troop is in another state, same council, same district, but at least an hour and a half trip each way.  It does happen to be the only other patrol-method troop in the council, but not quite as boy-led.  And yes they have the luxury of older boys where as we as a new start-up do not.

 

The aside wasn't necessary  I do have most of the full story.  With only his troop and my troop the only boy-led patrol-method troops in the council/district, the example I am putting forward is for the benefit of the forum.  The other SM and I have been friends for years.  Because I left for camp when he got back, it is just a matter of time before I get his paperwork.  Otherwise a courtesy call on my part will resolve a lot of this issue.  Yes, it did kinda surprise me on some of his actions, but at this point I have only the scout's word as to what went on.  I never make a decision based on only one side of any issue.

 

A scout is courteous is my aside.

 

Even friends don't always see eye-to-eye, but the chances of things working out are a lot easier.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Stosh

[qwazse]

So ...

He's had an SMC, by you. Maybe one by your friend? But it sounds like you'd like one more before signing off in the book.

He says he had a BoR by another troop committee for one or more ranks? You have no idea why adults would do that. Me neither (speaking from a troop that has hosted a few visiting scouts for the week). But the boy seemed excited about it on whatever message he left with you?

It really sounds like you're gonna get a completely different description of events when you talk to your friend. But regardless ...

 

Is the kid trustworthy? Then you can ask him up front if he had demonstrated those skills well enough to have gotten those signatures if you were there.

You could also ask if he could help the new PL practice signing off on requirements by demonstrating the skills he mastered while camping with the other troop.

 

I would ask the kid to schedule a BoR with your committee ... to finalize rank advancement, and to tell the adults what he liked about the other troop and is there anything your troop should try to do. You could use the "I'm worried about anybody looking at your Eagle application finding irregularities in your paperwork ... " excuse. But the fact is, you want your people to be responsible for their boys. Just like you wanted him to be responsible when he was PL. If this is about control, tell the kid straight up. He might not like it, but he'll respect it.

 

Save the paperwork excuse for any helicopter parents.

[TAHAWK]

The BoR is as much about the unit and its program as it is about the Scout.

[Stosh]

So ...

He's had an SMC, by you. Maybe one by your friend? But it sounds like you'd like one more before signing off in the book.

He says he had a BoR by another troop committee for one or more ranks? You have no idea why adults would do that. Me neither (speaking from a troop that has hosted a few visiting scouts for the week). But the boy seemed excited about it on whatever message he left with you?

It really sounds like you're gonna get a completely different description of events when you talk to your friend. But regardless ...

 

Is the kid trustworthy? Then you can ask him up front if he had demonstrated those skills well enough to have gotten those signatures if you were there.

You could also ask if he could help the new PL practice signing off on requirements by demonstrating the skills he mastered while camping with the other troop.

 

I would ask the kid to schedule a BoR with your committee ... to finalize rank advancement, and to tell the adults what he liked about the other troop and is there anything your troop should try to do. You could use the "I'm worried about anybody looking at your Eagle application finding irregularities in your paperwork ... " excuse. But the fact is, you want your people to be responsible for their boys. Just like you wanted him to be responsible when he was PL. If this is about control, tell the kid straight up. He might not like it, but he'll respect it.

 

Save the paperwork excuse for any helicopter parents.

 

Any time I speak to my scouts concerning anything which requires a rather private conversation I call it a SMC.  He's acting up a bit, needs a bit of attention?  SMC time.  Homesick?  SMC time.  Something's bothering him?  SMC time.  I do rank advancement SCM and call them rank advancement SMS's.  Having a conference about which MB's to take at summer camp, it's not approved in the book for rank advancement.  The boys know the routine on that.  

 

The MB's at that summer camp tend to be a bit Eagle Mill style in approach.  Not many boys can pull off 5 MB"s in a week including Cit in the World as one of them.  With signed MB blue cards, there's not much that can be done.  At the second summer camp with me he ended up with 2 partials, but the camp is a bit more serious about their MB's.  I've been at both camps and know the routine of each so I'm not guessing at that.

 

The BoR is as much about the unit and its program as it is about the Scout.

 

 

I was kinda thinking the same thing.

[qwazse]

We had a "boundary pusher" like this transfer into our troop at a time when we had a lot of qualified adult MBCs camping with us and, out of the goodness of their heart, providing counseling in house.

 

Thanks to a school system that had no qualms with grade inflation, he learned to leverage a disorder and become a skilled manipulator. Daily, our people told us about how he would try to negotiate his way out of doing requirements. We concluded that if he was "smart" enough to manipulate, he was capable of doing all of the work. So we made sure our people, as well as any camp staff we met, would make no concessions. So, he would take it out on his PL, manipulating out of work, or trying to pick a fight.

 

Finally, to keep the SM's blood pressure in check, we set up a "the buck stops here" committee. Keep pushing it? Talk a walk to the committee table. There he invariably heard "Be a scout, or go home." The MC's were almost certain he'd be going home the next day, and even I was only giving him even odds, but he straightened out for the remainder of the week.

 

So, upon reflection, I'm wondering if we were experiencing what you said earlier about a kid with unrestrained energy in a boy-led outfit.

 

It's not clear if you need a "buck stops here" committee. But, the kids in your troop know the drill. So hold this one to it. Everyone needs to be clear that SMC's and BoR's in other troops are just for fits and giggles.

[Stosh]

Every boy is different, but they all need attention, even if that attention is getting yelled at.  Now with that being said, how much attention is he getting when he isn't goofing off?  That's the kicker, especially when that attention is not the norm one gets from adults.   

 

This past week, we shared a site with another troop.  The other SM commented about one of my boys being a loner with serious social problems.  The boy is basically "spaced out" about 100% of the time.  If asked, he'll do it, but it will take twice as long as any other boy so no one asks him if they want the job done quickly.  After the other SM said something I showed him what the boy was capable of when he got some attention.  The two of us walked over to where he was "not dong anything" and I asked him how his Small Boat SM was going. The other SM expected a shrug and a "I dunno", but instead the boy lit up and the three of us carried on a conversation for about 15 minutes.  To top it off, the boy was the only one to walk away at the end of the week with all 5 MB's completed.   

 

Now with this boy I could be constantly "yelling at him" to pick up the pace and hold up his end of the deal.  As a matter of fact I'm sure there are a lot of adults out there that do, but I'm not one of them.  If one takes the time to actually get to know the boy they will find out that he plays the piano and is a karate black-belt. Out of the 10 MB's he's signed up for over the past two summer camps, he has a 100% completion.  Now it may have taken him longer than anyone else in the class, but he did do the work.  So is he a problem or not?  If one were to vote on it I'm thinking the results would be a 50/50 tie.  I kinda like the kid so I wouldn't count him as a problem in the troop.  

 

Just know that if you put him on the roster for retrieving food from the Commissary, be prepared to have a late meal.    Maybe in a couple of years, he will mature a bit and some of that will naturally go away.  If not, he's still a kid that would benefit from being a Scout.  By the way his home situation is far from ideal.