Who Approves Merit Badges?

[Stosh]

If a boy is a member of a troop, but attends summer camp with another troop, does the SM from the second troop approve the MB's the scout takes or does his registered unit SM?

 

Also how does one validate the boy returning from summer camp having completed TF and 2C with BOR's with the second troop?

Edited June 27, 2015 by Stosh

[MrBob]

 

7.0.0.3 The Scout, the Blue Card, and the Unit Leader

... Before he begins working with a merit badge counselor, however, he is to have a discussion with his unit leader. 

 

Nebulous... for this week of summer camp, the 2nd troop's SM is "his unit leader".

Also, nowhere in the G2A does it say that the member of a Board of Review have to be from the Scout's own Troop Committee.

 

 

8.0.2.0 Particulars for Tenderfoot Through Life Ranks (or Palms)

1. The board is made up of three to six unit committee members—no more and no less.

 

Potentially awkward situation... I'd say it warrants a phone conversation between the two SMs.

 

[qwazse]

All of this provisional stuff requires improvisation.

 

If logistics allow, the boy's regular SM should be on the card.

But, it's fine if the temporary SM signs it.

I'd ask the kid to have two BORs, the first one being official, the second being for some commitee to find out what the boy liked about advancement.

[packsaddle]

I disagree about having two BORs. One should serve any purpose that is needed for this.

[Stosh]

This was not a "provisional" situation.  The boy did not notify his SM he was attending camp with a different troop for the week.  The boy attended summer camp with his home unit as well.

[Twocubdad]

 

Stosh, I think we're misunderstanding "provisional".  Numerous times I've been checking in at camp and the CD says, "hey, here's this kid here for the week by himself.  Can he camp with you?"  To me that's a provisional camper.  He's camping with us for the week, but he isn't a registered member of our troop.  I wouldn't begin to sign requirements in his handbook, but I have written letters to his Scoutmaster listing those things the Scout did at camp.

 

 I suppose the real question is whether or not the Scout has dual registration with the two units. (For those who don't know, Scouts can be registered in multiple units as long as they are in different councils.  Often, this is to accommodate a Scout with divorced parents who spends parts of the year living with both.) If he is dual registered you're stuck with the results of the BORs.  And if that's the case, the unit leaders need to get on the phone and work it out for the future. 

 

Otherwise, advancement is 100% the responsibility of the unit where he is registered.  He should have provided signed blue cards from his registered troop for the merit badges (although recent advancement policy has made this a meaningless exercise -- but we've chewed on that before).  Only those appointed by his SM are authorized to sign rank advancement requirements.   That someone from the second troop signed for requirements carries no more weight than if his Aunt Minnie signed.

 

Verification should be easy -- just follow the proscribed steps to advancement -- learning, testing, reviewing, recognizing.  That the Scout learned the skills at camp is terrific.  Now he comes home and is tested by whoever his registered SM has designated.

 

MrBob -- you've cited the correct sections of the GTA but have reached the wrong conclusions.  No where in any BSA publications is it suggested that "his unit leader" is any ol' Scoutmaster who happens to be nearby.  For a Boy Scout, that is the Scoutmaster of the unit where he is registered. At our district winter camporee, the patrols are assigned to different troops to camp with for the weekend.  Can a kid get the other SM to sign his Eagle application over the weekend?  Here's another question:  who turns in the advancement report to council?  And if the other troop is in a different council, which council?  And what happens when you show up at the council office with an advancement report listing a Scout not in your unit?

 

Unfortunately, this is a messy knot to untie.  I can't fathom that another troop would conduct TWO BoRs under these circumstances.  Personally, I'd sit down with the Scout and his parents and explain this is a gross violation of policy and you can't award the two ranks.  But I would immediately, at that meeting, start going through the requirements with the Scout and signing off on the requirements he can complete.  But don't misunderstand this -- if the Scout says he completed a five mile hike at camp give him credit for it.  I'd ask the same questions -- where did you go, what did you see, show me what you learned about using a compass -- as I would for any other troop activity I didn't personally witness.

 

Again, in my case, I would involve my district advancement chairman in this.  But I know he understands the policy and will support the troop to get a good outcome.  But if I had an inkling the DAC is one of those, "oooo, this is an adult mistake.  We can't 'punish' Scouts because of an adult mistake" then I'd just keep my mouth shut.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Twocubdad

[TAHAWK]

If a boy is a member of a troop, but attends summer camp with another troop, does the SM from the second troop approve the MB's the scout takes or does his registered unit SM?

 

Also how does one validate the boy returning from summer camp having completed TF and 2C with BOR's with the second troop?

 

As a Scout may begin any MB before any conversation with his unit [adult] leader, I don't see much problem with you first issue. .  

 

He needs a BOR with the unit in which he is registered per Guide to Advancement.

 

The more interesting issue is alluded to by Twocub.   I would regard the "sign-offs" by personnel from the other troop - the one that is not the Scout's unit - as evidence much like a letter from a park ranger as evidence verifying that something was done.  Hopefully I would use good judgment and remember that this is Scouting and why we have advancement.  If I decided that there was some issue about whether the Scout was properly tested, he can be tested.   According to BP, it's about effort and trust is the basis of our morale training.  

 

I wonder what the head adult in the other troop thought was going on.

Edited June 27, 2015 by TAHAWK

[SSScout]

Reference to my other thread about Scout reticence to use the (tele)phone.  If there is a question about the Scout's  having fulfilled a requirement, or passed a MB, make the phone call.  If there is a problem, mature adults can work it out. 

We are all Scouts, brothers (and sisters?)  in arms, and (to borrow a phrase)  "it's for the kids",  yes?

 

The Scout's home Troop is where his records are kept, and where he is ultimately judged, I would say.  Home Troop SMConference, home Troop BoR, home Troop CoH, unless otherwise arranged because of extenuating circumstances.

 

Had a Scout from Georgia arrive at a private, boarding school in the neighborhood.  His mother called our Council, who called our DE, who called me (UC) who contacted the Scout , who called the SM of my home Troop, who arranged for him to attend meetings and camp with the Troop while he was at school. SM called SM in Georgia,  requirements passed were emailed back to home Troop. He only stayed two years (family troubles), but his Scout record was kept straight and (so I heard) he was on his way to Eagle.  He was never dual registered, just camping out up here....

[Stosh]

Yeah, I'm just a bit unsure of how this all fits together and I don't want to screw it up on some technicality that will pop up at the worst possible time for the boy, like when he's putting in for Eagle and is one MB short that he took at some camp while attending with some other troop, etc. and the signatures are not all with their t's crossed and i's dotted.

 

I don't want to end up some Eagle Scout's horror story.  

[Gone]

If a boy is a member of a troop, but attends summer camp with another troop, does the SM from the second troop approve the MB's the scout takes or does his registered unit SM?

 

Also how does one validate the boy returning from summer camp having completed TF and 2C with BOR's with the second troop?

We've never had an issue doing it this way. Boy signs up for camp with other troop. That troop provides blue cards to camp. Camp MBC signs off on blue card as completed (or partial) MB. Blue card given to scout to come back to our troop for SM to sign off on completed card. Card given to advancement chair, processes and awarded at post-summer camp COH.

 

Done and dusted.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Bad Wolf

[Twocubdad]

Merit badges are pretty cut and dried, especially now that the SM's initial signature on the blue card only indicates he chatted with the Scout about something -- the weather, sports, perhaps the merit badge....

 

When it comes to rank requirements, I would tend to be a little more concerned.  Many troops have their way of doing things, who signs the book, the standards of performance, etc.  I think it is instructive that most camps, both Cub and Boy Scout, are reticent to sign requirements in a Scout's handbook, rather provide the unit leaders with information on what the Scout has learned.  The testing is left to the unit.

 

We've been through similar experiences as SSS.  Had a Life Scout whose family moved out of state.  The young man was adamant he wanted to earn Eagle with our troop, but had a few MBs and his project to complete.  He dual registered with another troop and completed the merit badges through them.  When it came to his EP, he developed the project where he lived and submitted the proposal to us and our council EP committee.  I signed his Eagle app and it was submitted through our troop.  When it came time for his EBOR, the other troop asked if he would sit for an unofficial board with them, which he did, but his official Board of Review was done with our troop -- via Skype, no less.  Actually, it all worked out well and was a much easier than this explanation makes it sound.

[Gone]

Also how does one validate the boy returning from summer camp having completed TF and 2C with BOR's with the second troop?

If not signed off at camp by the first year program lead then we do it in the troop. Instructors sit down and ask them to demonstrate each requirement completed. EDGE and then signed off.

[Stosh]

If not signed off at camp by the first year program lead then we do it in the troop. Instructors sit down and ask them to demonstrate each requirement completed. EDGE and then signed off.

 

I have not received any paperwork from the other SM, camp or seen the boy's handbook as yet.  I guess I'll just have to sort through it when stuff comes through.  Once and done is not part of my process for advancement.  They demonstrate they know the skill.  I had a classic example pop up at summer camp last week.  We got hit with a storm and high winds which dumped tents and dining flies all over the place.  The boys out there in the wind trying to retie wall tents and salvage what they could from the cooking areas was quite a challenge for 12 and 13 year old boys.  We had just gone through tying up the tents when we first got there and the boys pretty much blew me off when I insisted on proper knots,. stakes and support.  We lost 2 ridge poles and 3 uprights in the process.  Fortunately the ground gave way or we could have had torn tents as well.  The next morning the only tents and flies still standing were the in the adult area.  I did notice later on that morning two of the boys were off by the latrine, had their books out and were practicing knots.  Once and done never worked for me and I'm not passing on that legacy to my boys.

 

The BOR, SMC, and Scout Spirit being signed off by another troop is another issue that will need to be addressed.  For sure I would never sign off on any of those if the boy was a member of a different troop.  if a boy was dual registered, there would be a discussion between the two SM's and agreed upon by them before signing by either of them.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Stosh

[Gone]

@@Stosh not sure what you mean by "once and done" unless you mean that you want the scout to demonstrate proficiency with a skill. I agree.

 

But how many times does a scout have to tie a bowline before he's considered to have learned it well?

Edited June 28, 2015 by Bad Wolf

[Stosh]

@@Stosh not sure what you mean by "once and done" unless you mean that you want the scout to demonstrate proficiency with a skill. I agree.

 

But how many times does a scout have to tie a bowline before he's considered to have learned it well?

 

When HE feels confident in tying the knot!  I never tell my boys the "secret".  When the boy hands me the knot and says, "Is this correct?" Then he's not confident in it.  When he hands me the knot and says, "Here it is."  Then he gets it checked off.

 

By the way, sometimes I even put a wee bit of doubt in a boys mind to test him.  "Are you sure?  That doesn't look quite right."  And the boy answers, "Yes, I'm sure."   At that point, you know he knows his stuff.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Stosh