Painted Pallets Fund Troop To Go To Camp

[christineka]

This showed up on my facebook newsfeed today.  Thought I'd share.  I would never have thought those painted signs would make enough money to fund anything.  (They aren't my style.)  http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=35055305&nid=148&title=panted-pallets-turn-into-cash-cow-for-brigham-city-boy&s_cid=queue-1

[Gone]

This showed up on my facebook newsfeed today.  Thought I'd share.  I would never have thought those painted signs would make enough money to fund anything.  (They aren't my style.)  http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=35055305&nid=148&title=panted-pallets-turn-into-cash-cow-for-brigham-city-boy&s_cid=queue-1

 

Awesome.

 

[insert IRS agent hoping he and all the other boys reported those funds as income]

[NJCubScouter]

I wonder whether they filled out a money-earning application and sent it to council for approval first. (I'd put one of those smiley-things here but I'm only half joking. Maybe two-thirds.)

[Stosh]

If the boy is simply selling hand made items, they don't need to report anything to council.  If the boys were going out into the neighborhoods and mowing lawns, they wouldn't need to tell council either.  This is not a fundraiser, it is a small entrepreneurial business that in fact be taken as income of which when donated to a troop for general funding of summer camp should just about offset any income on his taxes. 

[christineka]

I never even considered making my kids fund their own summer camp fees.  I wonder if they (I have three that go to camps) would get off their butts and do something and I wonder what would I do if they didn't ?  Could I follow through and tell them no camp?  Perhaps I should talk to them after this year's camps and they can start thinking up ways to make money.

[Stosh]

Not everyone has the luxury of having parents well enough off that they can sit back and have the $$'s handed to them for whatever fun project they happened to cotton to at that moment.

 

I was out shoveling walks, mowing lawns, and spading gardens long before I got into scouting.  My parents did purchase a Cub Scout uniform for me, but everything else related to Scouting, including fees, gear, and uniform came out of my expenses.  A Scout is thrifty, he pays his own way.  That's a Law that is neglected more than any of the others.

 

I went off to college in 1968 with $4500 in the bank and I graduated seminary in 1977, $1500 in debt.  Of course during that time, I owned two cars, one used and one new.  When I couldn't afford to continue on, I would drop out, work full time until I could get back at it again.

 

Well, today, parents can't afford scouting.  Well 50 years ago, my parents couldn't either, but I was a scout anyway, on MY DIME.

 

I have Zero Tolerance for the myriad of excuses scouts have for not getting off their butts and working their way in life.  At age 12 in many countries one is considered an adult, might be married and have kids on the way.  In the American culture, being 12 means you have at least 20 years of video games before one has to start thinking about contributing productively to the world in which one lives.... or at least move out of the parent's basement....

[christineka]

We aren't rich people either.  The girls' church camp cost was $25 and last year the boy scout camp cost was $75.  We will find out shortly how much scout camp will be this year.  The troop does do a fundraiser.  Not sure if the Brigham City troop did a troop fundraiser or not or is going to an expensive camp this year.  My son is projected to earn at least $100 off the lamb he is raising, so he certainly has means to earn money.

[NJCubScouter]

If the boy is simply selling hand made items, they don't need to report anything to council.  If the boys were going out into the neighborhoods and mowing lawns, they wouldn't need to tell council either.  This is not a fundraiser, it is a small entrepreneurial business that in fact be taken as income of which when donated to a troop for general funding of summer camp should just about offset any income on his taxes.

 

You sure? (I'm NOT sure.) The article says these funds sent the entire troop to camp. Sounds to me like it might be fundraising. And I haven't read the BSA fundraising guidelines lately, but I don't recall a distinction between handmade items and non-handmade items.

 

Not that I think it really matters. I suspect the kid's council is very happy about the positive publicity.

[qwazse]

We aren't rich people either.  The girls' church camp cost was $25 and last year the boy scout camp cost was $75.  We will find out shortly how much scout camp will be this year.  The troop does do a fundraiser.  Not sure if the Brigham City troop did a troop fundraiser or not or is going to an expensive camp this year.  My son is projected to earn at least $100 off the lamb he is raising, so he certainly has means to earn money.

 

Raising kids is not cheap, but kids are some of the most cost effective labor a neighborhood has. However, many kids don't know how to leverage that. The point of troop fundraising, IMHO, is to teach boys to sell something useful to meet financial goals. Like most things, a kid isn't usually going to make a windfall, and a family has to decide if and how to bail him out. The question a family should ask: is he meeting the family needs in other areas, and how much is that worth to us? In our family, with our kids, there was no excuse for anything lower than a B in any class no matter how hard. (It's their fault, they kept jawing about wanting to be engineers, doctors, scientists and researchers.) In my mind, that equates to extracting real value from taxpayer dollars. So we paid for a lot of other stuff because they got job #1 right.

 

 

You sure? (I'm NOT sure.) The article says these funds sent the entire troop to camp. Sounds to me like it might be fundraising. And I haven't read the BSA fundraising guidelines lately, but I don't recall a distinction between handmade items and non-handmade items.

Not that I think it really matters. I suspect the kid's council is very happy about the positive publicity.

Nothing about the council fundraising process is designed to manage windfall gains by one scouting family. If the IRS came knocking, the boy would write off the paint and his payroll and itemize a charitable contribution deduction.

If on the other hand ... Is buddies in the troop want to help him ride the wave, submit a plan to council with a goal of filling 2000 orders of pallet flags.

[Stosh]

I think @@qwazse sums it up when he emphasizes it's not what is being sold, but how it's being sold.  If the troop is working as a whole to promote the sales, then it's a fundraiser, but if the boys are working outside the troop then it's an issue of income generation FOR THE BOYS, not the troop.

 

I have never heard it a council policy if a bunch of boys got together to mow lawns to make money for camp that it automatically become a troop fundraiser.  After all the boys are expecting personal gain, not money for the troop's general funds.  There's no question that this is going to be an IRS issue as it pertains to the income of the boy.  After all, the boy can decide to spend the extra money on camping gear, school books, new clothes or help his buddies get to camp.  The Troop or CO have no say so whatsoever in how that plays out and most certainly, the Council has no say so.

[SeattlePioneer]

<< This is not a fundraiser, it is a small entrepreneurial business that in fact be taken as income of which when donated to a troop for general funding of summer camp should just about offset any income on his taxes. >>

 

 

 

I'd bet the boy should be filling out a schedule C form for his business, and probably a regular income tax form.

 

He might owe payroll taxes on much of the money he and other boys earned.

 

 

Sounds to me like it's too big to ignore the tax implications.

[StillLoomans]

Good for him! Hopefully he has adults around him that can handle the tax implications. Also, it sounds like summer camp is cheaper in the west which helps.

 

My two older sons pay for summer camp, monthly camping fees and personal spending money from their paper routes. My youngest son who just crossed over was worried about paying his own way. He was relieved to hear that his parents would support his first year, but he is working on ways to earn the money for next year. 

[NJCubScouter]

Stosh, the linked article is kind of vague about exactly how the funds from these sales went to pay for the entire troop's summer camp, so the conclusions you draw may be correct, but I am not sure how you get them from the article.

 

One thing's for sure though, someone's going to be filling out some forms.

 

Let not the bureaucratic/legal issues detract from the fact that this Scout has done a good job for himself and others.

[Stosh]

Yes, the article is rather vague, but I drew the assumption from the fact that he hired his sisters to help out with the orders and I assume they made money on the deal, so why wouldn't his buddies from the troop also be hired so they could earn some $$ for camp.  Yes, it's an assumption but not a stretch.  He gave tithes, to missions, saved some and kept some for spending money.  Nowhere does it say he donated anything to the troop, so the troop's involvement in this was non-existent  Not even as a recipient of funds as a donation.  It's going to be fun trying to figure out a tax filing for this boy because as long as he only has income in a certain amount does he even have to file no matter how the money was raised.  I no longer know what that amount might be, but there was no withholding taken out for him to have to claim for a refund.  

[qwazse]

...  I no longer know what that amount might be, but there was no withholding taken out for him to have to claim for a refund.

 

It's about 4k.

If his is a small troop, he could have definitely earned under that amount and afforded to underwrite their camp.

It's not entirely clear if socking away funds for your own future mission is sheltered.

I don't see the tax man raising an eyebrow over this.