Setting Expectations For Volunteering And Managing Leader Tenure

[blw2]

Hard to explain my question in a title....

Someone once told me that their pack had one of those established habits.... doing it because that's the way it always has been done....

 

Anyway, the habit was to reduce leader burn out and to share the load 

setting the expectation that every parent would be expected to volunteer in some fashion

and that through the process of the program, folks would be groomed for jobs in the future.....

 

For example

usually a parent form the 1st year webelos den that takes on the cubmaster job.  The thinking being

- that this would be a parent that has been involved in the pack for a while now, so they are more comfortable with how things work, etc...

- it's an established expectation that someone grooms into

- they go into it knowing that it's a finite commitment and not something they will be stuck with

- and this person would then be around for a few months in their son's 2nd web year to advise and support IF needed

 

I believe it was that a Bear parent would take the Assistant CM job in grooming for the CM job

 

Wondering if any of you have experience doing something like this.... or have thoughts about it?

 

What are some logical ways to handle other positions in a similar fashion?  (DL's, Committee Chair, and other roles)

 

This came up in a recent discussion with my son's DL, who is getting a bit burned out.  Anyway, he has been an advocate that we should have been setting early expectations that everyone is expected to help... and I have agreed....and so this idea came up, but i can't wrap my head around how one might handle the Den Leader position in a similar fashion.

 

[Stosh]

I have worked in offices where Lean Transaction processes are promoted.  A lot of what happens in the standard office is wasting time.  Waiting for something, trying to figure things out, handling emergencies etc.  There are no prescribed processes in place to know what to do for each issue.  

 

Take something as simple as the phone rings.  They ask for the boss.  Do you find out who's calling?  Do you put it through?  Do you take a message?  And so the reinventing of the wheel happens all the time.

 

Standard work for the individuals in the adult support crew need to know what to do when something in their area of responsibility arises.  We need a check to pay reimbursements.  Does that go to the Scribe? Treasurer?, the CC?   It shouldn't be all that hard to have the process written down as standard work.  This is what is done when confronted with this situation.  If down the road someone comes along with a better way of doing it, standard work of modified and updated in the manual of operations.

 

Newbie parent and you would like them to be responsible for _______.  Get out the manual of operations and have them read the part for that job.  Can they handle it or not?    Of course if they are treasurer an there's nothing in there about going on campouts, and the treasurer would like to go.  Great, but it's not part of their standard work.

 

If everyone is on the same page when it comes to expectations, it cuts down on the misunderstandings, rogue activity and abuse of the positions.

 

You want to be a DL?  Here's the standard work all spelled out for you.  

 

Good support people are not recruited groomed and let loose for on the job training.  They are recruited, given knowledge of the responsibilities, trained and supported in their efforts to do a good job.  The SM does that for his boys, the CC needs to be doing the same thing for the adults.

[Eagledad]

You are asking a very good and very complex question. For one thing, many folks, including me, like to compare management for volunteer organizations the same as businesses. But over the years I learned the two are apples and orange from each other.

 

A business has the time and money to train and groom its employees for long future expectations. Cub Scouts has five years “At Best†for training, grooming and leading, and then then they are gone.

 

Businesses will eventually shutdown if they don’t create profit. But I have watched Scouting units doing the same wrong things over and over, without ever having to shut down only because they are fed new families every year which don’t know a good program from a bad one. Since there is little visible measurable profit to represent success in a pack, there is also little visible measurable failure. So the same old issues like burnout repeat themselves over and over.

 

Businesses can sort out bad employees by asking them to move on. Asking bad volunteers to find another unit is very very rare because most folks would rather put up with bad volunteers than to be a confrontational bad guy.  There is little incentive to be confrontational and demand better service in a volunteer organization.

 

Despite some opinions on this forum, the BSA does provide pretty good training to manage a scouting unit. The problem is how closely a person chooses to use the training guidelines over their own instinctive approach. Some people are just terrible at scouting but love being the person everyone looks up to. There are very few mechanisms in the system to change that situation.

 

I over the years have come to agree with you that burnout is the leading problem with struggling units, especially Cub packs. Cub Scouts is too long and too complicated for the average volunteer to manage. I say it again with capitals for emphasis: CUB SCOUTS IS WAY TOO COMPLICATED AND WAY TOO LONG FOR THE AVEAGE VOLUNTEER TO MANAGE. I learned in school that the average person is only motivated to give about 20 months of volunteer time to a volunteer organization. THAT IS LESS THAN TWO YEARS, and we expect adults to give us five years of enthusiastic service in the Cub program? Three is too much, but at least there is light at the end of the tunnel in the 3rd year. Five years is just a long dark cave with no end in sight.

 

I advise adults to develop a program where adults are expected a maximum of three years of service. Use a retired Bear Leader to lead and run the Tiger program. Don’t recruit Tiger parents at all for anything and instead encourage them to observe and enjoy the program. Pick a Wolf Parent to assist the Cub Master for taking over the responsibility during their sons Bear year.

 

Don’t encourage “any volunteer†to take on more responsibilities than the responsibilities they were specifically trained. I have seen so many Pack pile on their Den Leaders. Den Leaders should lead the Den and no more. CC should recruit none registered parents to plan and lead activities like Pinewood Derbies and Blue and Golds.

 

If a pack can develop their program so that a volunteer joins knowing they are only expected to give NO MORE than three years of their time, then we find that the program not only become more manageable, it becomes more enjoyable for everyone. And when the adults are having fun, the boys will certainly have more fun. I did the research and found that packs where the adults had fun and weren’t burning out had a 90% crossover rate of Webelos. The reason is burned out adults don’t provide a fun program for the boys. The boys naturally have the same expectation for their future in scouting as the present. So if they aren’t having fun now, they don’t expect it to get any better next year. On the opposite side, happy adults who enjoy their volunteer work carry that into a fun program for the boys, which translate into boys looking forward to the next year’s adventure, including in the troops. And it all works. We created programs to help packs get to that point and the crossover numbers reflected the changes.

 

Sadly I think National is working against us in the area of Cub Leader burnout because they keep adding responsibilities on the adults.  But if the adults understand just how much they can do without getting burned out, then they can develop the program within those limits.

 

Our pack worked pretty hard on that concept and our Tigers and Webelos crossover numbers were well above 90%. But the day I really appreciated how well our pack worked was when I attended the Eagle Court of Honor for one of my past Webelos. He said that while he had a lot of fun in the troop, Webelos in our pack was the most memorable time of his scouting career. That really says a lot more about the pack as a whole than my Webelos Den because the den was a result of a lot of work of the whole pack program.

 

Hope this helps toward your question.

 

Barry

[blw2]

Some great points @@Stosh and @@Eagledad.

 

Despite some opinions on this forum, the BSA does provide pretty good training to manage a scouting unit. The problem is how closely a person chooses to use the training guidelines over their own instinctive approach. Some people are just terrible at scouting but love being the person everyone looks up to. There are very few mechanisms in the system to change that situation.

 

There are a lot of interesting dynamics in this point.  Some people can't let go, some love scouting but don't do it well, others like you said like to be looked up to, or like to lead, or just want to do the minimum and don't really care about scouting....

 

I've considered that this makes this whole thing of limited tenure complicated.  Some folks may just be getting on a roll at the end of their time, some may have the energy to go beyond the time affectively, etc....

 

 

CUB SCOUTS IS WAY TOO COMPLICATED AND WAY TOO LONG FOR THE AVEAGE VOLUNTEER TO MANAGE. I learned in school that the average person is only motivated to give about 20 months of volunteer time to a volunteer organization. THAT IS LESS THAN TWO YEARS, and we expect adults to give us five years of enthusiastic service in the Cub program? Three is too much, but at least there is light at the end of the tunnel in the 3rd year. Five years is just a long dark cave with no end in sight.

 

I couldn't agree more, at least on your time point....  It is too long.  Boys get burned out, leaders get burned out.... even the parents taht do nothing get burned out.

 

20 months is an interesting statistic.  I think I was good for a bit more.... maybe 30-36, but I'd say based on my limited experience that it's pretty right-on the mark as an average!

 

 

I advise adults to develop a program where adults are expected a maximum of three years of service. Use a retired Bear Leader to lead and run the Tiger program. Don’t recruit Tiger parents at all for anything and instead encourage them to observe and enjoy the program. Pick a Wolf Parent to assist the Cub Master for taking over the responsibility during their sons Bear year.

 

Don’t encourage “any volunteer†to take on more responsibilities than the responsibilities they were specifically trained. I have seen so many Pack pile on their Den Leaders. Den Leaders should lead the Den and no more. CC should recruit none registered parents to plan and lead activities like Pinewood Derbies and Blue and Golds.

 

If a pack can develop their program so that a volunteer joins knowing they are only expected to give NO MORE than three years of their time, then we find that the program not only become more manageable, it becomes more enjoyable for everyone. 

 

This is exactly where I was going with my question.... so did you actually do this?

How did or do you handle the other Den leaders?  Take turns from among the den itself?

 

mapping out the example/guideline gets tricky, especially for those with more than one son.... but then I guess whatever it is would just be a guideline....

 

My thinking

Cubmaster comes from a 1st year WEB parent (So as to have been around for a while observing)

Assistant CM comes from a Bear parent

The retired CM becomes a Committee Member for the 2nd year WEBS

      that makes 2-1/2 years for that person... just about right then....

 

I like your idea of a retired Bear leader taking the Tigers

so, A parent would be Den leader for their son's Wolf and Bear years

then would become the Tiger Leader for his 3rd year of tenure.  My opinion is that instead of the whole year, just for the first couple of months....

Then another den parent would be Den Leader for the 1-1/2 WEB years.... perhaps after serving duty as some other committee position or better yet an Assistant to the DL.

 

CC could be handled in parallel with the CM scheme

 

The other positions could be more random, but with the general idea of no more than 2-1/2 to 3 years....

 

I am liking the logic....

 

And I know what many of you would be thinking.....

for me this is just a campfire discussion.... I know there are way too many variables for it to ever really work "as written"

[Eagledad]

This is exactly where I was going with my question.... so did you actually do this?

How did or do you handle the other Den leaders?  Take turns from among the den itself?

 

Yes, well sort a. As you said, there many variables and they change. But the main objective is for the scouts to have fun. For that to happen, the adults have to enjoy what they are doing. So we build around making the program as fun for the adults as it is for the scouts. 

 

The Den leaders are only asked to plan and run three den meetings a month. That's it. The Pack plans one pack activity each month like a swimming party, campfire, roller skate night, pinewood derby, blue and Gold and so forth. Typically non registered parents plan all those activities. The pack does its annual planning every July so the CC can start recruiting as soon as possible.

 

Also to help lessen the risk of burn out, just about every volunteer has an assistant that could take over if ever needed. That worked well for us during my first three years in Cub Scouts because we had three good committee chairmen transfer out of the state. Each time the assistant stepped in without missing a beat. 

 

We are pretty good at recruiting, so that helps us a lot. But some packs struggle getting volunteers leaving the adults to start taking on multiple duties. We teach pack leaders to instead scale down their program to save themselves from burnout. We encourage packs to focus first on high quality fun den meetings. Less than 50% of Webelos nationally crossover to troops. Boring den meetings were found to be the main reason that at least 70% of those scouts didn't continue on to the troops. The other pack activities are nice, but it is the den meetings that makes a fun rewarding program. 

 

So instead of a mediocre yearly agenda full of activities that wears out the adults.  Focus "First" on quality Den programs, and then as the pack finds more resources, add the other activities. But don't take away from good quality den meetings. Fun den meetings start with enthusiastic adults planning and running those meetings. Do what it takes to keep the den leaders happy and enthusiastic with their responsibilities.

 

As I said, to run a Pack program the way National presents it is way too hard for the average parent, so scale it down to make it workable and FUN for the adults. If the adults are enjoying the program, they will bring their kids. And isn't that really the point.

 

Barry

[Twocubdad]

Over the past few years our brother pack has started assigning planning and execution of pack activities (PWD, Scouting for Food, Blue & Gold, etc.) to the dens. While the den leaders are free to delegate the responsibility to a parent in the den or for the den to run it as a group effort, it is ultimately the responsibility of the DL.

 

So after 5+ years of this, the DLs cross over into the troop and retirement. Used to be the DLs were my best troop volunteers -- they generally understood the program and what it involved. Now, the better volunteers are those who sat out Cub Scouts and are look at the troop as a new opportunity to get involved.

 

I totally agree that five years as a DL is too much. So the pack dump pack activities onto them as well?

[blw2]

yes, I have tried to be very sensitive about the Dls' workloads.

I really tried to encourage parents to become an ADL for their son's leader.....

And I tried really hard to not put any more onto them except two things....

   rolling each den through leading the flags and opening prayer

   and having a skit or some other presentation for "den time at the pack meetings"

I've seen past and present Cubmasters dump a lot on them.... so much that if I were in their shoes I'd sit on my hands......or take a hike.

 

My pack has had a tradition since before my time that  a parent from the 1st year WEBELOS den chairs the derby, and a parent form the 2nd year WEB den chairs the B&G...... which they have always perverted into an overdone 2nd year WEB AOL/graduation/crossover celebration

 I think the B&G would be better served by not being the 2nd year WEB parents doing it for that reason, but other than that it works.  So far it hasn't fallen on our DL's as non-registered parents have stepped up

[Eagledad]

My pack has had a tradition since before my time that  a parent from the 1st year WEBELOS den chairs the derby, and a parent form the 2nd year WEB den chairs the B&G...... which they have always perverted into an overdone 2nd year WEB AOL/graduation/crossover celebration

 I think the B&G would be better served by not being the 2nd year WEB parents doing it for that reason, but other than that it works.  So far it hasn't fallen on our DL's as non-registered parents have stepped up

A lot of packs, including ours, has the same tradition of the 2nd year Webs doing B&G. We fixed our long B&G by doing the Crossover at the Pack Meeting before or after the B&G. Actually the parents (everyone) liked that change because it made the B&G much easier to plan, and a lot shorter in length.

 

Barry

[Stosh]

I, too, like the Arrow of Light and Blue-Gold separated, not only for the length issue, but for the message it portrays.  Too often the Blue-Golds end up being more of something for the Webelos II boys to the exclusion of the other boy's.  

 

I know it's heresy, but the Arrow of Light is bad enough, but couple that with the cross-over at Blue-Gold and you have an even bigger separation going on.

 

If I was given the responsibility to do a Blue-Gold, it would be a big pot luck, lots of games, a few prizes maybe a magician or some sort of entertainment, maybe a skit or two and that's it.  Just a family fun event for all the boys.  The Arrow of Light, the cross-over and other Webelos II specific issues can be held as a separate celebration just for those families.  Again, that can be a big pot luck, but it would be the Webelos II families and the Boy Scout families getting together to really focus in on just their boys' transition into the Boy Scout program.

 

With a lot of Blue-Golds going on in February or early March, the Webelos II graduation actually cuts the second year short.  Now the Boy Scouts really like picking up the Webelos boys early because it gives them time to get them ready for summer camp.  Well, that's a Boy Scout issue and shouldn't be dictating the Cub program schedule.  And as a caveat to that, while it does allow the Boy Scouts the needed time to get ready for summer camp, it also opens up the lead time for the boys to get ready for summer sports as well.  Kind of a pick your poison type of thing.    

 

So the boys only have a couple of weeks to get ready for summer camp?  So, work with the Webelos II den leaders and coordinate it as part of a cooperative transition.  That way the Boy Scouts get a chance to look over the new Webelos and their parents and the Webelos II leaders get a good view of what the troop can do to get their boys up to speed.

[Eagledad]

I know it's heresy, but the Arrow of Light is bad enough, but couple that with the cross-over at Blue-Gold and you have an even bigger separation going on.

 

The problem with the AOL for me is that we have turned it into such a big deal that most packs don't award it when scouts earn it, but instead wait for the big day to present it to Webelos at once. I started awarding the AOL when each scout earned it, then gave the Scouts a special AOL gift at a pack meeting after the B&G. I made the presenting the gift fun and entertaining for the whole pack.

 

If I was given the responsibility to do a Blue-Gold, it would be a big pot luck, lots of games, a few prizes maybe a magician or some sort of entertainment, maybe a skit or two and that's it.  Just a family fun event for all the boys.  The Arrow of Light, the cross-over and other Webelos II specific issues can be held as a separate celebration just for those families.  Again, that can be a big pot luck, but it would be the Webelos II families and the Boy Scout families getting together to really focus in on just their boys' transition into the Boy Scout program.

 

This is what our Pack's B&G looked like when I left it

 

With a lot of Blue-Golds going on in February or early March, the Webelos II graduation actually cuts the second year short.  Now the Boy Scouts really like picking up the Webelos boys early because it gives them time to get them ready for summer camp.  Well, that's a Boy Scout issue and shouldn't be dictating the Cub program schedule.  And as a caveat to that, while it does allow the Boy Scouts the needed time to get ready for summer camp, it also opens up the lead time for the boys to get ready for summer sports as well.  Kind of a pick your poison type of thing.    

 

So the boys only have a couple of weeks to get ready for summer camp?  So, work with the Webelos II den leaders and coordinate it as part of a cooperative transition.  That way the Boy Scouts get a chance to look over the new Webelos and their parents and the Webelos II leaders get a good view of what the troop can do to get their boys up to speed.

 

While I wish Packs would keep the Web IIs the whole year, when national created the NSP, any scout not joining in mid year was left to his own and the troop having to deal with it out of sequence. Taking in a new scout or two every month used to be the normal way troops worked, but the NSP program has reshaped Troop agendas because now they are dealing with a large percentage of their membership all at the same time with the same level of ignorance. That sounds easy, but from a troop perspective, it forces the program into a fine balance routine. It's now a hassle for PLCs and adults to plan around accepting multiple big groups several months apart. But yes, I like the idea of keeping the Webs at least through April and I think it would work better for everybody. 

 

One idea I did like that our District tried for a few years was doing one giant District Webelos Crossover. Man that made life much easier for the troops (especially our SPL) and the packs. But, someone has to plan it and eventually district couldn't find the volunteers. It was fun, OA would perform the ceremony in front of a great big bonfire. 

 

Barry

 

Edited June 12, 2015 by Eagledad

[Stosh]

 

I know it's heresy, but the Arrow of Light is bad enough, but couple that with the cross-over at Blue-Gold and you have an even bigger separation going on.

 

The problem with the AOL for me is that we have turned it into such a big deal that most packs don't award it when scouts earn it, but instead wait for the big day to present it to everyone Webelos at once. I started awarding the AOL when each scout earned it, then gave the Scouts a special AOL gift at a pack meeting after the B&G. I made the presenting the gift fun and entertaining for the whole pack.

 

If I was given the responsibility to do a Blue-Gold, it would be a big pot luck, lots of games, a few prizes maybe a magician or some sort of entertainment, maybe a skit or two and that's it.  Just a family fun event for all the boys.  The Arrow of Light, the cross-over and other Webelos II specific issues can be held as a separate celebration just for those families.  Again, that can be a big pot luck, but it would be the Webelos II families and the Boy Scout families getting together to really focus in on just their boys' transition into the Boy Scout program.

 

This is what our Pack's B&G looked like when I left it

 

With a lot of Blue-Golds going on in February or early March, the Webelos II graduation actually cuts the second year short.  Now the Boy Scouts really like picking up the Webelos boys early because it gives them time to get them ready for summer camp.  Well, that's a Boy Scout issue and shouldn't be dictating the Cub program schedule.  And as a caveat to that, while it does allow the Boy Scouts the needed time to get ready for summer camp, it also opens up the lead time for the boys to get ready for summer sports as well.  Kind of a pick your poison type of thing.    

 

So the boys only have a couple of weeks to get ready for summer camp?  So, work with the Webelos II den leaders and coordinate it as part of a cooperative transition.  That way the Boy Scouts get a chance to look over the new Webelos and their parents and the Webelos II leaders get a good view of what the troop can do to get their boys up to speed.

 

While I wish Packs would keep the Web IIs the whole year, when national created the NSP, any scout not joining in mid year was left to his own and the troop having to deal with it out of sequence. Taking in a new scout or two every month used to be the normal way troops worked, but the NSP program has reshaped Troop agendas because now they are dealing with a large percentage of their membership all at the same time with the same level of ignorance. That sounds easy, but from a troop perspective, it forces the program into a fine balance routine. It's now a hassle for PLCs and adults to plan around accepting multiple big groups several months apart. But yes, I like the idea of keeping the Webs at least through April and I think it would work better for everybody. 

 

One idea I did like that our District tried for a few years was doing one giant District Webelos Crossover. Man that made life much easier for the troops (especially our SPL) and the packs. But, someone has to plan it and eventually district couldn't find the volunteers. It was fun, OA would perform the ceremony in front of a great big bonfire. 

 

Barry

 

 

 

Within the past few years our council has been doing a brief cross-over ceremony at Camporees.  It was intended for the new boys to have an opportunity to have a ceremony for those that didn't get one.  It's still a rather piece-meal operation in that one of our feeder Packs does a cross-over just for the Webelos II boys as they exit the program.  A Boy Scout troop does it to "welcome" in the new guys, and some don't do anything and just wait for the camporee cross-over.

 

I did notice that the Packs that cross-over as an exit strategy do not have boys actually crossing over to anything.  I have seen it were the boys cross over the bridge only to go sit down with their parents.  Yes, we have the necker and book, but that's just a waste of resources because they never join the troop afterwards.  If the boys cross-over INTO the troop, they are making a stronger commitment to the Boy Scout program.  Those waiting for the camporees have boys that are already active making the cross-over.  Because of this general observation, I do like the cross-over in the hands of the troops and even the district at the camporees.  It's really nice to have the big campfire as the backdrop for the cross-over.

[Eagledad]

I did notice that the Packs that cross-over as an exit strategy do not have boys actually crossing over to anything.  I have seen it were the boys cross over the bridge only to go sit down with their parents.  Yes, we have the necker and book, but that's just a waste of resources because they never join the troop afterwards.  If the boys cross-over INTO the troop, they are making a stronger commitment to the Boy Scout program.  Those waiting for the camporees have boys that are already active making the cross-over.  Because of this general observation, I do like the cross-over in the hands of the troops and even the district at the camporees.  It's really nice to have the big campfire as the backdrop for the cross-over.

Must be a local thing. I've attended hundreds of crossovers and there was always someone (usually SPL and SM at least) receiving them. But the packs set the time and place of their crossovers, so it can be difficult to have troop representatives at every crossover. I remember our troop had to visit three crossover one night. We had half our PLC and ASMs covering them. Probably why I like the District crossover so much. Our troop was trying to help packs by letting us do the crossover, but folks would be surprised to learn the most Webelos families choose their troop within one day of their crossover. That made it impossible for our PLC to plan. If I were to get back on district, I would try to change the tradtition from the packs being responsible for crossovers to the troops. Then see what happens.

 

Barry

[NJCubScouter]

I over the years have come to agree with you that burnout is the leading problem with struggling units, especially Cub packs. Cub Scouts is too long and too complicated for the average volunteer to manage. I say it again with capitals for emphasis: CUB SCOUTS IS WAY TOO COMPLICATED AND WAY TOO LONG FOR THE AVEAGE VOLUNTEER TO MANAGE. I learned in school that the average person is only motivated to give about 20 months of volunteer time to a volunteer organization. THAT IS LESS THAN TWO YEARS, and we expect adults to give us five years of enthusiastic service in the Cub program? Three is too much, but at least there is light at the end of the tunnel in the 3rd year. Five years is just a long dark cave with no end in sight.

Yes and even if they make it through the Cub Scout years without running off screaming into the night, forget about most of them helping out at the troop level. They've done their time, as far as they are concerned.

 

And there seem to be some people who want to make it SIX years, by adding a kindergarten program. I know some councils have had pilot programs for that. I don't even think many of the first graders are ready to be Tigers, and if their parents/DL's burn out before five years, hey, let's add another year and see what happens!

 

I advise adults to develop a program where adults are expected a maximum of three years of service. Use a retired Bear Leader to lead and run the Tiger program. Don’t recruit Tiger parents at all for anything and instead encourage them to observe and enjoy the program. Pick a Wolf Parent to assist the Cub Master for taking over the responsibility during their sons Bear year.

Sounds good if you can do it. In my son's pack the idea that someone would agree to be a leader for a den that their son was not a member of was on about the same level as pigs flying. It was difficult enough to get people whose sons WERE in a den to be DL. (Eventually, after I left, they had so much trouble even getting parents to be DL's that a former leader (and UC), whose son had already crossed over, stepped in as leader for two of the dens. But that was not the kind of orderly transition and succession planning you are talking about. That was a crisis, with a crisis response, because otherwise those dens would have folded, followed shortly by the pack.) As for pack leadership, there always seemed to be exactly one person (no more, no less) who was willing to be CM and the same number of people willing to be ACM. Admittedly, my experience (as an adult) is only with that one pack.

[qwazse]

From a guy who stayed in the background at the cub level ... I had three kids coming down the pipe ... one likely to head toward GSUSA (although that only lasted half a year). I was as non-committal as I could be. Needed fire? I'd light it. What bug is that? I'd identify it. Want canvas up? I (along with another non-committal dad) was on it. Mobile kitchen? The family camp box was tossed in the van (table cloth included). Coffee? If you could handle espresso, it was ready for you. Silly songs and dances? Oh yeah! Science projects? Boom!

 

Committee meetings and round tables? Not on your life! I had just come off of serving on a contentious church board and needed to find my soul again and it wasn't gonna be around a table of "decision makers." God bless my DL, she tried to call a meeting during camp seista time and me and my other "non-committing buddy" made a be line for our tent, keeping all flaps up so we could be observed napping from 360-degrees!

 

Then, come crossover, I was really ready to assist. Did a sting as MC, then someone tossed me an ASM patch. Then Son's girlfriends wanted Seabase and Daughter was hating GS, so I knew if she was to mature in her love for the outdoors, I needed to do something about it. Thus venturing.

 

My point: don't look at everyone as though you are grooming them for your unit. You might just be there to help them find their niche somewhere down the road.

[Eagledad]

My point: don't look at everyone as though you are grooming them for your unit. You might just be there to help them find their niche somewhere down the road.

Makes sense. I would say half of our troops SMs were not registered members in their pack. But, they didn't come forward for a troop job either. They were recruited (heels dragging) to be ASMs and eventually found the passion to be very good Scoutmasters.

 

And, I can think of three pack leaders (Eagles/SPL/OA during youth) who planned to be SM's when they joined the BSA in Tigers, but declined the SM gig a few years later because they had burned out. However, it wasn't do to a lack of warning by me. I actually insisted two of these guys not get involved at the pack level, and they still did. You just can fight passion and enthusiasm. They would have been great Scoutmasters. 

 

Barry