Eagle94-A1 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 We had a troop that folded in my neck of the woods. The SM of that troop was a member of my son's troop as a youth, and all but two of their Scouts transferred to us. He also is getting it worked out where the gear will get transferred to us as we need it. The troop doubled in size when joined, stressing our equipment supplies. Now we've added a 3d patrol, and will be getting a 4th (possibly a 5th patrol) in the next 6 months when the Webelos II ( or are they now called Arrow of Light Scouts) from the feeder pack Cross Over ( and it looks like my pack will be sending their Webelos to the troop too since our CO's troop is still doing NOTHING with the pack, including recruiting). So we are growing exponentially and can use all the trained adults we can get, especially since the SM's health is continuing to deteriorate. So this Scouter is not only helping recruit, but also get gear donated. Now here is the challenge. The SM of the folded troop was a hellraiser as a Scout in my son's troop and the COR was the COR back then as well. While the current SM has no problems with him being an ASM, the COR does. The COR remembers the problems he had, and specifically remembers one incident where the former scout punched a leader. So the COR refuses to sign off on the guy to be an ASM with the troop. He's even talked to the folded troop's IH as to the reason why the troop folded, and got essentially the same answer I gave. Any ideas on how to handle the situation? Forgot to add why I am getting involved in this mess. IH, when he found out I was stepping back from Cub Scouts to help the SM out, asked me to work with the SPL to mentor him and get the troop to where it should be, a role for the SM, not an ASM. Also the "heir apparent," who is CM of the pack, and others have made comments about challenges the pack is having and how he cannot switch over yet. So I got a suspicion I will be having a chat at the next committee meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetracker Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 If the SM of the folding troop has leveled out in his hot headedness, I would suggest approaching him and letting him know that since the COR remembers him 'when' and does not know him 'now' it might be best if he takes a committee position and works that in a way that he can show to the COR that he has matured.. At the same time suggest to the COR that people can mature and change with age, get him to agree to a committee position for this guy and for him to re-evaluate the man on who his is today, not what he was umpteen years ago.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) Signing adult on is between the COR and IH. Leave it there. The wannabe ASM's a big boy. If he cares, he can go to them with hat and hand begging for a trial run by using some variation of @@moosetracker's bleeding heart speech. The current SM may "have no problem", but unless he's enthused about this guy, this is a non-essential issue. If you're assisting the SM, do what he asks you. If not, tell him you're not and look for another "patch." How is this complicated? I've mentored SPLs ... it especially helps take the pressure off when they are SM's sons. Get the kid to read the SPL's handbook. Get him to some leadership course. Show him the ILST syllabus. Give him the paperwork he needs and the SM's phone number so he can schedule meetings efficiently. Get him into the habit of communicating plans with the SM (copying you if via E-mail) and reminding PLs of tasks (copying you and the SM if via E-mail). Arrange for a scoutmaster conference in a couple of months to evaluate. Edited: Oh and teach him how to operate your coffee pot. Edited June 9, 2015 by qwazse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Signing adult on is between the COR and IH. Leave it there. The wannabe ASM's a big boy. If he cares, he can go to them with hat and hand begging for a trial run by using some variation of @@moosetracker's bleeding heart speech. The current SM may "have no problem", but unless he's enthused about this guy, this is a non-essential issue. Yup. This is the battle between the COR, the CC, the SM and the guy who wants to join the troop. I'd leave it there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueymungus Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Key 3 Issue.....go sign books and see what the Scouts are cooking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 Thanks folks. Yep, I want to stay out it. I think the SM, CC, and COR need to handle it. And I'll add the IH as well since he is also involved in the troop as an ASM and has seen the guy in action on the camp out the folded troop joined us on. Qwasze, My goal is to help the current SM until he steps down and my friend, aka the "Heir Apparent" takes over. Then I am going to support him because his job crazy. He's had to miss and/or leave early from meetings, leave in the middle of the night and come back very early the next morning on camp outs, and his job even tried to get him to come in when the troop was at summer camp! Thankfully the chief of police is a big supporter of Scouting, and understood why he couldn't come back to work during summer camp. However, he had to report in about 4 hours after returning from summer camp. As for the coffee pot, I will quote what is on the adult leader's coffee set up, "Adults Only: KEEP YOU PAWS OFF!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 ... My goal is to help the current SM until he steps down and my friend, aka the "Heir Apparent" takes over. Then I am going to support him because his job crazy. .... As for the coffee pot, I will quote what is on the adult leader's coffee set up, "Adults Only: KEEP YOU PAWS OFF!" Noble goals indeed. I think there are plenty of ways to have a light hand in the SPL's mentoring.each troop is different regarding this. The main thing: no matter how busy the SMs are, make sure they arrange time for after action review with the SPL. This is especially difficult with high school age youth. The coffee comment applies to older SPLs ... you may find the only time for AAR is while the patrols are working on breakfast and you all are boiling up a pot. Sure, this can be a sacred time for adults, but from this side of the Internet, @@Eagle94-A1, you don't seem to maintain boundaries very well. That's a compliment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 On the plus side, the unit gets to camp outs and events faster with that police escort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 Sure, this can be a sacred time for adults, but from this side of the Internet, @@Eagle94-A1, you don't seem to maintain boundaries very well. That's a compliment. Yep, I'm an oversized kid, and sometimes do not maintain boundaries. I've been known to walk into patrol campsites when I smelled somethign good and ask, "What's for dinner?" On the plus side, the unit gets to camp outs and events faster with that police escort. LOL! But it has been known to freak people out. When I was doing training, the ASM was helping out on staff, but was on call that weekend. Chief had to give him permission to leave his jurisdiction (campsite was approximately 400 yards away from city limits), but he had to take his vehicle with him. Well he gets called out Friday nite, so he's not at camp. Saturday morning, he shows up in his police van, and some of the Scouters are a little freaked out. I'm just waiting for the SWAT team leader to go camping with us. It seems as if every time we go camping, he's on call and cannot make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoPenn Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Wait - one of the ASM's is also the IH? If's he's ok with the former Scout becoming an ASM in the unit (and if I were an IH who has a unit that is growing and just got an infusion of boys AND equipment from that former Scout's unit, I suspect I would be), the he can sign the application instead of the COR. The application states it can be signed by the Chartered Organization Head or Representative. At that point, the COR can decide to do whatever he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) Calico, The IH/ASM is relatively new to the CO. So he's keeping things as they are. He's still getting a feel for things. And since he is an Eagle with a son in the troop, he signed up to help when he can. Edited June 10, 2015 by Eagle94-A1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Most IH's would not want to overstep the COR's selection of adult leaders. And it doesn't sound like you need that kind of intrigue. You'll want both of them to get on the same page about Erstwhile Hothead. That means the two of them having an open conversation with him about their apprehensions. Then leave the decision up to them. Heck, leave the room, maybe even the building when it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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