Episode 3: The Truth Escapes (Or "how Wrong We Were To Join This Troop")

[Gone]

I have no doubt that when people talk about special needs kids, there's a potpourri of different conditions and even within those conditions an infinite number of variances that come with the situation.  But then that could be said about any kid on the block special needs or not.  We have the garden variety of physical conditions, mental conditions, emotional conditions, environmental conditions, social conditions, etc. etc. and the list goes on and on.

 

I don't care how much training one has, I don't care how much parent involvement is involved, I don't care how much medical considerations have to be maintained, I don't care how much effort it is going to take to make it successful for the boy.  

 

My solution to this whole issue?  As SM, "Take care of your boys."  It's been my philosophy for my boys, my adults and myself.  As long as one cares about the success of any of their boys, the work-arounds and problem solving will happen.  

 

 

A few things Stosh

1. The spectrum of special needs kids and how to care for them is FAR different than taking care of non-special needs kids. Sorry, but the varieties found in each group require FAR different methods for handling them. It just does.
2. Agree that an SM's role is to take care of "his" kids. The stress of managing special needs kids -- especially for the untrained -- can REALLY test one's dedication.

[andysmom]

As a parent of a scout with Aspergers and AHDH I can totally agree with Bad Wolf.

My son's behavior is not predictable, he can escalate VERY fast and for seemingly unknown reasons.

He has run from the room, screamed at adults, covered his ears with his hands, cried, yelled, hid under tables and more.

I have received calls from the trained professionals at the school to come in because they cannot calm him or get him to comply with demands.

I would not expect a youth leader to deal with that.  I do not ask adult leaders with that.  Either my husband or myself are ALWAYS nearby, always!

 

Every kid with an autism spectrum disorder is different, every kid!  Their diagnosis might be the same but their behavior is not.  We have several kids with different needs in our troop, some are obvious, some are not.  We work extremely hard to be sure each has a good experience, but in my experience a special needs scout must have very understanding leaders as well as very active parents.

 

My son does not participate in most troop games, everyone knows it is best if he doesn't, for various reasons.

He has been in scouts since he was a Tiger, he is now a 13 year old star scout.  He has been to resident summer camp every year. He has more community service hours than anyone else in the troop.  He has earned his year round camping award.  Last weekend he was inducted into the OA.  He is a good scout and scouting has been good for him but it certainly hasn't been easy.

[Stosh]

 

A few things Stosh

1. The spectrum of special needs kids and how to care for them is FAR different than taking care of non-special needs kids. Sorry, but the varieties found in each group require FAR different methods for handling them. It just does.
2. Agree that an SM's role is to take care of "his" kids. The stress of managing special needs kids -- especially for the untrained -- can REALLY test one's dedication.

 

 

I totally agree, there's no "one-size-fits-all" when it comes to any kid.  You are correct however, that special needs kids don't react the way one would normally expect them to and this in itself totally throws off most adults that don't have special needs children.  Those of us who do, understand at a different level.

[JoeBob]

 

I have to ask something to all of you here.  The basis for how to interact with our son when he is in crisis is not complex. As an adult, unless you are having a bad day yourself of course, why is this being seen as difficult?  

1. Safely remove him from the scene.
2. Allow him to calm down on his own.
3. Never, ever attempt to resolve anything (good or bad) at that time.

Devils advocate here.

 

1- Removing him can be difficult: In a canoe?  In a raft?  Caving?  On a hike where the troop has to hold up with dark approaching?

2- How long does calming down take?  At least one person has to re-direct whatever they had planned for their time to keep an eye on your son.

3- Does going back to whatever the issue was stimulate another meltdown?  Is resolution eventually reached?

 

I would suggest that in your new troop you hover in the background like some of the other parents have written about.  Scouting is not like school, where the changes come at a slow steady pace.  Scouting is about challenges. The more difficult the challenge, the more the boys grow.

 

If you continue to hope that your boy will be okay in your absence, and he isn't; then your new troop make begin to resent babysitting your boy at the expense of the other troop members, too.

 

Good luck,

 

JoeBob

Edited June 13, 2015 by JoeBob

[imachristian13]

A.K.A. Stepford children.

 

What makes kids who don't play video games and/or who obey their parents earn the label of "Stepford Children"? Is it that much of a stretch that this happens?

[imachristian13]

Devils advocate here.

 

1- Removing him can be difficult: In a canoe?  In a raft?  Caving?  On a hike where the troop has to hold up with dark approaching?

2- How long does calming down take?  At least one person has to re-direct whatever they had planned for their time to keep an eye on your son.

3- Does going back to whatever the issue was stimulate another meltdown?  Is resolution eventually reached?

 

I would suggest that in your new troop you hover in the background like some of the other parents have written about.  Scouting is not like school, where the changes come at a slow steady pace.  Scouting is about challenges. The more difficult the challenge, the more the boys grow.

 

If you continue to hope that your boy will be okay in your absence, and he isn't; then your new troop make begin to resent babysitting your boy at the expense of the other troop members, too.

 

Good luck,

 

JoeBob

 

While I do recognize that you are playing Devil's Advocate, I think you are missing one important thing. Our son had BOTH parents onsite for every meeting. We had been as interactive in the meetings as we were permitted to be by the other ASMs and SM - always stepping in when our son went outside of the parameters that the boy leaders could handle (or the ASMs for that matter). The only time that there has been any concern is on local service outings or local campouts  - both of which were approved by the SM and ASMs for us to step out so he could have a bit more normal of an experience.  

 

We spent weeks setting him up (social stories, planning, working with his fellow scouts and leaders) on a whitewater rafting trip. We did this because neither of us could (physically) participate. When they got to the event site, the ASMs (the ones we've been discussing) moved him to a different group of scouts and put him in a different role on the 4-person team. As a result, he was 100% trapped and could not have been removed in the method we normally would have attempted. Water trips will be handled differently by us - likely the he will participate in an entirely different fashion.  

 

Removing him doesn't have to be anything farther away than out of reach from other troop members or leaders. 

 

Yes, at least one person has to re-direct. If this is an issue, then the communication should be ahead of time because his needs don't change. It's no different than bringing an Epipen or Insulin. If I can count on the ASMs to properly medicate my son (if he needed meds that is), I should be able to count on them to follow an agreed-upon plan. The other option is to say "for this trip, we need one of you to attend or he will not be able to attend" - exactly what we asked them to do from Day One.  

 

Returning to the scenario does not come back to another meltdown in our case. Resolution is ALWAYS reached. It just needs to be requested when he is able to process it.  

 

One aspect of Scouting that should be like school? Proper organization. There's no excuse for coming in to a meeting (boy-led or not) that doesn't have some semblance of a plan. Standing around and waiting for someone to do something is hard on the boys - Asperger's or not.

 

Do you really believe that following the guidelines that they agreed to at the start amounts to babysitting? We have parents who drop and run their boys - we don't even see them for Courts of Honor. In this case, they have a fully-active family here to assist in making the scouting experience top notch for ALL of the boys. Yet they chose to ignore that opportunity.   

[gsdad]

You keep typing you are going to "train" the leadership of these troops to deal with your son. Did you ever think they don't want to be trained? They have no obligation to be trained, your family is the one who needs to make the big adjustment. You're doing more harm than good by forcing your son into these situations. Your son has special needs like a lot of children; he and his needs are your responsibilty. You cannot force others to make accomodations, or attend to his needs because you want to let him spread his wings, and cry foul when they don't practice the "training" you gave them. Before you tell me I don't understand, I do. My wife and I adopted all three our children through foster care, all three have special needs. WE adjusted, and made the first concessions. As much as we would loved a break for the weekend while she went camping with Girl Scouts, it wasn't a reality.

Edited June 22, 2015 by gsdad

[qwazse]

@@gsdad, I disagree.

 

The leaders of my troop and crew are constantly fitting scouting to the needs and skills of our youth.  The hope is that the seasoned kids can operate on their own for a few minutes while we find out what we need to do help the special needs kids adapt. But that definitely means the troop bending its program to fit the kid.

 

Sometimes that meant walking the <insert disorder here> kid to within cell coverage so he could talk things through with his mom. (The conversation usually boiled down to, "Well, I'm here and you're there, you can handle this, and I'll see you when you get home." Then, to us, "You're doing everything I could ask of you. Thanks!") Sometimes that meant an older scout helping the kid understand an order by his patrol leader so that he wasn't bitter about it.

 

Other times, it meant a parent taking the kid home.

 

Other times in meant us telling the parent "Don't send that kid to camp without his meds ever again!"

 

It often did not mean the parent had to be with the kid. It did mean constantly adjusting on everybody's part.

 

It never meant expelling the kid. (Although suspension is always in the offering for conduct disorder kids.)

[gsdad]

@@gsdad, I disagree.

 

The leaders of my troop and crew are constantly fitting scouting to the needs and skills of our youth.  The hope is that the seasoned kids can operate on their own for a few minutes while we find out what we need to do help the special needs kids adapt. But that definitely means the troop bending its program to fit the kid.

 

Sometimes that meant walking the <insert disorder here> kid to within cell coverage so he could talk things through with his mom. (The conversation usually boiled down to, "Well, I'm here and you're there, you can handle this, and I'll see you when you get home." Then, to us, "You're doing everything I could ask of you. Thanks!") Sometimes that meant an older scout helping the kid understand an order by his patrol leader so that he wasn't bitter about it.

 

Other times, it meant a parent taking the kid home.

 

Other times in meant us telling the parent "Don't send that kid to camp without his meds ever again!"

 

It often did not mean the parent had to be with the kid. It did mean constantly adjusting on everybody's part.

 

It never meant expelling the kid. (Although suspension is always in the offering for conduct disorder kids.)

 

That's just it Qwazse, your unit is willing to make the effort. You are under no obligation to do so no matter how much "training" the parents provide.

[Gone]

You keep typing you are going to "train" the leadership of these troops to deal with your son. Did you ever think they don't want to be trained? They have no obligation to be trained, your family is the one who needs to make the big adjustment. You're doing more harm than good by forcing your son into these situations. Your son has special needs like a lot of children; he and his needs are your responsibilty. You cannot force others to make accomodations, or attend to his needs because you want to let him spread his wings, and cry foul when they don't practice the "training" you gave them. Before you tell me I don't understand, I do. My wife and I adopted all three our children through foster care, all three have special needs. WE adjusted, and made the first concessions. As much as we would loved a break for the weekend while she went camping with Girl Scouts, it wasn't a reality.

 

If the unit accepted the scout and wanted to get trained on how to manage him, then obviously most everyone involved was willing to try.

 

I think where things fell down, given what little we know, is perhaps the expectations of how autonomous the scout was going to be were perhaps too high.

[packsaddle]

What makes kids who don't play video games and/or who obey their parents earn the label of "Stepford Children"? Is it that much of a stretch that this happens?

 

It's the ones who pose no challenges and obey every rule that are the 'Stepford Children', lol. They don't occur often in reality, if at all.

[qwazse]

If the unit accepted the scout and wanted to get trained on how to manage him, then obviously most everyone involved was willing to try.

 

I think where things fell down, given what little we know, is perhaps the expectations of how autonomous the scout was going to be were perhaps too high.

 

Well, yes, that happens. But, somehow between two people who weren't the SM, this became grounds for expulsion FROM THE DISTRICT?

 

The parents are perplexed.

 

The SM should be infuriated. But, he is a man of few words. Maybe in the long run that's a good thing.

[imachristian13]

You keep typing you are going to "train" the leadership of these troops to deal with your son. Did you ever think they don't want to be trained? They have no obligation to be trained, your family is the one who needs to make the big adjustment. You're doing more harm than good by forcing your son into these situations. Your son has special needs like a lot of children; he and his needs are your responsibilty. You cannot force others to make accomodations, or attend to his needs because you want to let him spread his wings, and cry foul when they don't practice the "training" you gave them. Before you tell me I don't understand, I do. My wife and I adopted all three our children through foster care, all three have special needs. WE adjusted, and made the first concessions. As much as we would loved a break for the weekend while she went camping with Girl Scouts, it wasn't a reality.

 

Hi - thanks for commenting.

 

I won't tell you that you don't understand. I will tell you that you didn't pay attention to something I've been saying all along. The beginning of our relationship with this troop was a sit-down meeting between the SM, the ASMs (including the 2 involved in our concern), and the majority of the entire Committee. At this meeting, we - in essence - asked permission for our son to join the troop. We explained what they would be dealing with from his point of view as well as our intended level of involvement. Had they not agreed to take on our son, we would not be in this place now. We have NEVER demanded anyone adjust to him - we have asked for their willingness to do so with our help. To put it into your words, we "adjusted and made the first concessions."  

[imachristian13]

That's just it Qwazse, your unit is willing to make the effort. You are under no obligation to do so no matter how much "training" the parents provide.

 

To reiterate - we did not demand this obligation - we asked for their commitment and they agreed that they were willing to make the effort.  And, as an aside, enough with the quotes on our training them, OK? When you are fully trained in how to do something, describing it as such is fully proper.  

[imachristian13]

If the unit accepted the scout and wanted to get trained on how to manage him, then obviously most everyone involved was willing to try.

 

I think where things fell down, given what little we know, is perhaps the expectations of how autonomous the scout was going to be were perhaps too high.

 

What little we know? What don't you know?  

The expectations of his autonomy were actually too low.