packsaddle Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Well, the form I grew up with is already gone and has been for quite a while...probably was replaced in the 1970s before I came back. It was great for me and I have no doubt that it would still be great for boys today. But I'm not 'in charge' and the program is different. I admit that I look at all this from a very local perspective. As long as there are boys who want to do outdoor stuff, even a fraction of what things used to be, I'll be there to assist and try to provide those opportunities. That is completely not dependent on National policy as far as I'm concerned. If BSA became a tiny niche organization with barely any national organization to it, as long as there continued to be community interest at this local level, assuming I'm healthy enough by that time, I'll continue to work with the local unit if they want me. What I don't understand is the seeming concern that unpaid volunteers who practically aren't even given the time of day by National...have for the long term well-being of National. I'll just add that to the long list of other things I don't 'get'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 My only concern about national is the same concern I have about my government: Stop making silly policies and leave me alone to manage my local unit. I'd be happy if national went away (not just talking BSA here ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Packsaddle, I think a lot of BSA volunteers view National (and to a degree the councils as well) as sort of a "necessary evil", even though most of them probably don't think of it in those terms. You seem to be challenging the "necessary" part. I guess it depends on what people really value. For example, if people want to use the "Boy Scouts" name and uniforms and have their Scouts earn "Eagle", you have to go through National for that, legally speaking. What the legal situation would be if National suddenly disappeared, I do not know. Since it seems extremely unlikely to happen, I choose not to spend time thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutldr Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Don't forget the business model of the BSA is a "franchise". All Scouting is local. The only purpose of National is to create program materials and license you to use them. If you decide you really don't need to use the materials, then you have things like "Trail Life" popping up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle77 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 @@eagle77 how long have we lived under the current model where national is acting like it is today? My point being, we haven't lived 100 years with national being the way they are today (constant tinkering). Membership for youth and adults has been on a steady decline. Most recently that decline has doubled -- coincidently with the recent changes. Could BSA survive? Sure, but in what form. Certainly not in the form many of us grew up with and came to embrace....and THAT is what JoeBob and I (and perhaps others) were addressing. National has been changing, updating, and tinkering since it first began. When I was a scout SOAR stood for "save our american resources" today its some computer program for tracking advancement or something. I also can't blame National for taking a CYA (cover your a**) attitude in todays world of law suits.I look at it like when my XBox gets an update, do I actually need it for what I do on the box? Maybe not but it may affect what other things it can do that someone else is using it for. I think to just blame National for declining membership is to easy. There are many other factors that have to do with this. The increase pressure from those that cannot be members (gay and athiests), changes in the way parents are raising their children. When I was a kid I just went out today I would be called "free range". Now the main question is: What can BSA do to slow or stop the decline? Whatever choice or decision that is made there will always be those that agree or disagree with it. Sorry to say when I came back to scouting it wasn't the same program that I grew up to love, but the core part was still there. Helping and guiding our youth for the future. That's what scouting is about and as long as there are volunteers that care for that it will survive, in spite of anything that comes out of National. My only concern about national is the same concern I have about my government: Stop making silly policies and leave me alone to manage my local unit. I'd be happy if national went away (not just talking BSA here ). I fully agree, but when or if anyone attacks our country I am going to want the government to be there and protect me. Problem is you just can't go with an all in or all out attitude, gotta take the good with the bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBob Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) What I don't understand is the seeming concern that unpaid volunteers who practically aren't even given the time of day by National...have for the long term well-being of National. I'll just add that to the long list of other things I don't 'get'. Woodbadge brainwashing... Membership for youth and adults has been on a steady decline. Most recently that decline has doubled -- coincidentally with the recent changes. Numbers decline has many inherent challenges: Sports Electronics Over-scheduled parents More urban living Lawyers Irving is making it worse. Edited June 8, 2015 by JoeBob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 It was only a few days ago that Stosh suggested that Traditional Scouting was the wrong direction for running patrol method, so I'm not sure what this topic is all based from. We on the inside know where the program struggles and needs changes, but from the outside, the program as a whole is running against a big Pop Culture media ride where adventure requires little more physical or mental effort than turning on the TV and computer. Camping out doors is not appealing against video games. So scouting at the very least has an image challenge against technology. Go ask the average young teen what they would like to do next weekend and see how often fishing, hunting, hiking or camping comes up. At best you might get some biking in there somewhere. However, as I said, the culture is media driven. If National could and would spend the money required to saturate a young persons mind through media of a fun program that takes kids to part of the county they have never seen before, they might get somewhere. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) Could a "federally chartered" organization such as the Boy Scouts be taken over by the federal government? Could the President step-up from Honorary President to become the Commander-in-Chief of the Boy Scouts as writer H.L.Menck satirically suggested in 1937? Say these Colorado brownies are great! Edited June 8, 2015 by RememberSchiff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Numbers decline has many inherent challenges: Sports Electronics Over-scheduled parents More urban living Lawyers Irving is making it worse. Agree there are many things eroding membership. Sports has always been out there as a competitor. It is a recent event (last 15 years) that every darn parent thinks there kid has a shot at the pros, or at least a college scholarship. 99% wouldn't make a true "select" team from 20 years ago. Everyone is special. This is a parenting issue. Electronics is another recent competitor. Again, parents allowing their kids to have more and more screen time is a parenting issue. My parents kicked us out of the house and said "go play". Today's parents are too busy being friends than parents. I don't think the parents are over-scheduled, I think the kids are. Again, a parenting issue. They have their kids in EVERYTHING and cannot say no. That's not the kid's fault. Urban living? I think most of the membership is from suburban areas. Maybe that's what you meant? Not sure what the inference is here...maybe that urban and suburban folks don't like the outdoors as much as us rural folk? Maybe. I think it is more about people making choices...and everyone wasn't the quick, 7 days-7 cities tour of scouting (think Griswalds at the Grand Canyon). Check the box, move on. Again, a parenting issue. Lawyers? Yeah, that one I can agree with 100%!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Go ask the average young teen what they would like to do next weekend and see how often fishing, hunting, hiking or camping comes up. At best you might get some biking in there somewhere. Ask the 16 year old me if I'd rather lie around, eat and watch movies or get up and do ANYTHING and the answer was always the former. Kick my butt out of the house and tell me to hike 50 miles and I loved it!!! Don't you remember the apathy, yet excitement, of being a teenager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoPenn Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Where do we go from here to regain the importance of scouting once again? That phrasing hit me for some reason and caused the little gray cells to try to formulate an answer but then it hit me - from what point and by what metric? Membership numbers? Even with the latest decrease, which can be attributed to a lot of different things, still leaves us with well over 2 million Scouts served - there aren't many youth organizations that are comparable, and those that are, are the same that have always been comparable. Reputation? Yeah - the BSA has taken some hits but according to one poll, 80% of the American people still think that Boy Scouts is important for boys. I don't think we can adequately answer the question without knowing what folks think may have been lost, and without trying to find out if it was truly lost or just a perception of being lost. But if I were to answer on the basis of reputation - where do we go from here to regain the reputation, I'd say we need to start bombarding the media with positive stories about the BSA and start really taking them to task for what they do say in their news stories - for instance, USA Today published a story earlier this year saying that the BSA has, for the first time in their history, a viable alternative in Trail Life. I'd really like to know what that reporter's definition of "viable" is given that Trail Life has a membership of about 20,000 youth and adults and the BSA has a membership of youth and adults of around 3 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle77 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Ask the 16 year old me if I'd rather lie around, eat and watch movies or get up and do ANYTHING and the answer was always the former. Kick my butt out of the house and tell me to hike 50 miles and I loved it!!! Don't you remember the apathy, yet excitement, of being a teenager? Remember when the TV was called the "boob tube or electronic babysitter? Todays parents, I think, see it more as a protective thing. In my house, no drugs, no gangs, and no danger. When they need to go out they are only put into adult supervised activities. Want to socialize? Here open a facebook account. Even if you had parents today that might let you out, you would have to hope that some other parents felt the same way so you had someone to do something with. I would hate growing up today, but a kid growing up and being raised in this manner may not see any problem with it at all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) When some fearmongering "commissioner" can hop on a forum and paint a picture where "Jimmy the Retarded Scoutmaster allows a group of unprepared 12 year olds to conduct their own overnight outing" (http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/forums/topic/adult-free-outings/#post-39683), then use it as an excuse to justify a blanket prohibition against what is still permitted in the current patrol leader's handbook ... I think it's reasonable to expect continued declines in membership. With a misguided vision that pitches activities where adult chaperons are required to justify your existence, your teen audience shrinks drastically: If your vision his H/A and Jambo, you will ultimately attract the 5% of scouts who look forward to doing either. If your vision is some kid being rewarded Eagle or Summit or Botswain ... you will ultimately attract the 5% of youth who do that. If your vision is some super-survivalist reality show hero ... maybe 5% there. Mix and match STEM, varsity, etc ... account for overlap ... I'm suspecting membership to level of at 20% of its 2000 number over the next few decades. It might change if the vision returns to: simply hiking and camping independently with your mates using first class skills ... that vision is already instilled in most kids via other media (your average teen anime has a scene or two of youth in the woods by a campfire ... ). And most of us know it is readily accessible to most of our youth. simply calling an access van for a weary senior citizen ... that vision is in the back of most adults' minds. (Most of us can't imagine having streets to cross in our future. ) That's what we have to sell to the 80% of youth in our country. The other stuff, although very cool, is the exception. Edited June 8, 2015 by qwazse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuctTape Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Qwaze is correct. Building forts in the woods, cooking hot dogs on a stick, and staying up late with your buddies. That is the essence which attracts and retains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 It was only a few days ago that Stosh suggested that Traditional Scouting was the wrong direction for running patrol method, so I'm not sure what this topic is all based from. From that comment, yeah, me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now