Scout W/autism - Troop Asms Having Difficulty - Possible New Troop's Sm Called By Asms - Thoughts?

[imachristian13]

Hi folks.  Here's the scoop.

 

My 13 y.o. son lives with Asperger's Syndrome. He is high-functioning but can be difficult for those who are inexperienced. My wife and I have worked with our Troop leadership team since we joined Scouting in Fall of 2013 to help them to work with him and to be an overall support. While we have found a good deal of success, there is a husband and wife team who serve as ASMs...they have a 14 y.o. in the Troop as well. They either don't get it or they don't want to get it. When our son is in scenarios under their direct leadership, he has a bad experience. 

 

After speaking with our District Executive, we had elected to consider a shift to another local Troop. Unfortunately, the husband is also the Commissioner for this other Troop. Still, we were planning a visit to see what we could find out. We shared this decision with our SM and Committee Chair. Earlier today, I was informed that the ASMs from our present Troop contacted the SM of the Troop we planned to visit. Although I have not yet determined all of the details of what they shared, they pained a very poor picture of my son as well as of our family as a whole. While we will be the first to tell you that our son can be challenging, he is most certainly capable of achieving in BSA. Working with a new SM on this scenario is our prerogative - not theirs.    

 

We are realistic. People make mistakes. They do things because they think they are doing the right thing. We get it. Our son is the loser in all of this so we want to be clear.  

 

In a nutshell, my questions are these:

1. From a general point of view, the only reason that we can see for sharing information about our son with this new SM was to be spiteful. What are your thoughts?
2. From a "BSA Guidelines" point of view, this sounds like a violation of privacy. They are sharing medical and personal information with the new SM, a person with whom we've never even met at this point, without our expressed permission. Isn't that the case?  

[KenD500]

In general, when a transfer Scout visits another Troop (Troop 2), the SM of Troop 2 will contact the SM from Troop 1 for any information that he/she is willing to share.

 

It sounds like you and your Scout haven't visited yet.  Before the visit, I would talk with the SM of the potential new trip.

[JoeBob]

 

 

1. From a "BSA Guidelines" point of view, this sounds like a violation of privacy. They are sharing medical and personal information with the new SM, a person with whom we've never even met at this point, without our expressed permission. Isn't that the case?  

 

No.  Not unless they are sharing something that they saw on your son's medical form.

 

Their personal observations are their observations, and you have no control over them.

 

But why are you assuming that they are spreading bad things?  They might be relating they failures to interact well with your son and encouraging the new SM to work with your boy in a different way.

[imachristian13]

No.  Not unless they are sharing something that they saw on your son's medical form.

 

Their personal observations are their observations, and you have no control over them.

 

But why are you assuming that they are spreading bad things?  They might be relating they failures to interact well with your son and encouraging the new SM to work with your boy in a different way.

Thank you for your reply.  The only reason we believe they shared in a negative light - as opposed to the method you describe - is how it was shared with us.  Based on our interactions with them, it would surprise us to find that you are correct.  

 

 

[packsaddle]

If this happened with a student and 'teachers' were involved, it would be a violation of law and someone's neck could be on the block for it. But there's not much you can do about volunteers in a 'gossip' situation though and that's what this appears to be.

It makes me angry to hear of situations like this because there's nothing constructive about it...only harm to everyone involved.

When you do make contact with the other troop, try to make it as congenial as possible and try to sense if they've been 'set up' already by this behind-the-back activity. If they have, inform them that you are aware of it and how saddened you are that as a result an innocent boy, your son, could be hurt by it.

See if they soften any and if so, be frank about the needs and challenges associated with his membership. If the new unit is worth anything they'll take your comments seriously and sympathetically. If they have already made up their minds, you didn't need that bunch in the first place.

[CalicoPenn]

I'm really sorry that you have to go though this.  I would, as Ken first suggested, contact the SM of the potential new Troop to see if it is still worth while to visit the Troop.  A good SM will not have let what the ASM's have reported to them color their enthusiasm for a potential new Scout - if you hear any hesitation in the SM's answers, then you need to ask directly if a visit is even welcome.

 

I'd be making a few other calls as well.  Contact the District Executive and explain what has happened - the ASM's should never have contacted that SM on their own, even if he is the unit commissioner.  Ask the DE for the number of the District Commissioner - and then call the DC and tell him/her what happened.  A god DC will not want to have someone like that serving as a unit commissioner.  I'd also be contacting your current COR and let them know how this pair of ASM's is sabotaging your son's BSA career.

 

Does that sound vindictive?  It's not meant to be - it's meant to protect the next Scout and then the next Scout and the next Scout from these people.

[Stosh]

Have a cup of coffee with the new SM explain the situation with him/her and see if your son might work out in the new troop.  I for one have taken on "problem" scouts and haven't had any problems with them.  Many times when an adult gives a boy a real opportunity to succeed, rarely do they disappoint.  If the new SM is open to this, things should go well.  I've had boys such as yours in my troops and it takes an open-minded SM to make it work. 

 

My question would be, where is the first SM in this whole process that allowed things to go awry in the first place?  If I had 2 ASM's acting like this couple, I would be looking for their replacement rather quickly.

[moosetracker]

From what I understand the problem couple are ASM's not the SM himself.. If after contacting the new troop, you think the ASM's have seriously hurt your son's chances of being accepted, then if  you think the SM of your current troop is capable of giving a more positive review, perhaps he can contact the new troop to give them a different perspective and erase some of the harm..

 

My gut reaction is to agree with JoeBob, if the info they shared was from observation rather then sharing off the medical form it isn't HIPPA..  But then I have to curb this to say I am not sure how restrictive this is.. If they stated your son has Asperger's Syndrome, perhaps just this is breaking HIPPA rules, even if the condition is well known in your troop, it would be up to you to decide to share it with a new troop in your own way..  I say this because when I was trying to get people to get medforms completed for summer camp, I use to read off the list of those whose medforms I did not yet have updated.. I was told I was breaking HIPPA rule.. So if just stating a person is in need of a updated medform breaks HIPPA rules it is pretty stringent.

 

Some troops (and people) are capable of dealing with health issues and some are not.. Our troop worked with scouts with health problems, but it went much better when the SM was on board.. We got a new SM who did not want to deal, and the rest of the volunteers had to try to work around him to help the 2 scouts, but the SM did prove to be a serious obstacle to work around.. We lost one to another troop, the other stayed on but the parents were in constant battle since the SM did not want the scout to go on any events even when there was a volunteer or parent there who would take full responsibility..

[imachristian13]

Have a cup of coffee with the new SM explain the situation with him/her and see if your son might work out in the new troop.  I for one have taken on "problem" scouts and haven't had any problems with them.  Many times when an adult gives a boy a real opportunity to succeed, rarely do they disappoint.  If the new SM is open to this, things should go well.  I've had boys such as yours in my troops and it takes an open-minded SM to make it work. 

 

My question would be, where is the first SM in this whole process that allowed things to go awry in the first place?  If I had 2 ASM's acting like this couple, I would be looking for their replacement rather quickly.

We haven't given up on the possibility of the new Troop - far from it. We aren't going to let two bad eggs spoil things.  

Our current SM is a great guy - and the rest of the ASMs do fairly well with our Son as well.  It's just these two.  They do a lot of things like this - including starting gossip that the current SM was planning to step down last Christmastime...it wasn't even on his radar. We have toyed with trying to stay put and remove or modify the problem ASMs as well - just thought we'd look at an "easier" option.  

[imachristian13]

 

 

 it would be up to you to decide to share it with a new troop in your own way.. 

MooseTracker hits it dead on here. This is what bothers me. Not like we hide his Asperger's (if anything, we probably share it too much) but it's not their call to make.  

 

thanks

[Gone]

First, if the ASMs said anything about your son's Aspergers they violated the law by divulging your son's health status to someone who did not have a need to know or was authorized by you. That's something I'd take up directly your your current CO and TC. They violated the law and that is a problem for your CO. THEY, not you, should be the ones leaving.

 

Second, as a father of a scout with similar needs -- and lucky to be in a unit that has several such scouts and leaders with special training -- I can say that the scout's chances of success it's far better to have one of the parents very involved...perhaps as an ASM. I'm not sure if you can do that but I can tell you it has helped my son and the other scouts in my unit to,have their parents involved.

 

Lastly, it sounds like you've invested much in to your current unit to help train the leaders and it sounds like they are open. Unless there's a reason the SM lets those two ASMs lead an event, he should rethink it. If they can summarily dismiss your scout, what will,they do in other situations? The SM should rethink putting them in charge.

 

I would stand my ground. I'd volunteer to attend those activities my son is on and I'd make darn sure those two were held accountable for their actions. You've invested a lot and your current leaders seem accepting. I'd press for the two ASMs to be held accountable for their actions. Inexcusable of them.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Bad Wolf

[qwazse]

I have not hesitated to stand up for my youth and adults verbally and in writing to my district executive and district commissioner when unit commissioners have maligned them and our unit's good number to scouters in other units under their charge. When proper, I copied all direct witnesses and aggrieving parties to make sure that they knew what I knew.

 

It might not change anyone's behavior, but I was glad to have laid it out in the open, and my committee knew I would not let our chain be yanked.

 

Your SM should rattle off a quick note decrying this unseemly behavior. Frankly, I would request the one fellow be removed from the commissioner's corps. He did not perform his duty, which would have simply been, "You should call the SM to get the back-story on this kid."

[walk in the woods]

I also have an Asperger's Syndrome son. If we were making a youth program decision again I'd push 4H over scouting as a better fit. I will second bad wolf's advice to be a ASM or other leader but it won't be the last time you run into this kind thing.

[moosetracker]

If the rest of the current troop is great with working with your son, and it's just this one couple, then I agree with Bad Wolf.. Stand your ground with the current troop and get someone to discipline, educate and restrict the leadership these two have on outings at least until they prove they can work with your son..  If this troop is 90% great for your son and the only problem are these two then it is a possibility the new troop may turn out worse.. Sounds like you have spent a lot of time educating this troop..

 

I don't know if they will expel the couple.. If they don't work in medicine or with children like in education, chances are they don't know the in's and outs of the HIPPA rules, and the fact you are very open with the information and they got it through word of mouth in the troop rather then looking at a private (for yours eyes only) medical form, will have them not thinking about HIPPA rules when they tell someone..  My guess is your SM or other ASM's have probably passed on this info to others at summer camp or during a camporee so that Merit Badge Counselors, other Camp Staff or Camporee station volunteers know that the child has special circumstances, and when the info is passed on in order to help your child and improve his experience you were fine with it.. So with that in mind, these two wouldn't think HIPPA regulations.. But, what they did do is pass negative info along before you even met with the new troop in order to ruin chances of you making good first impressions.. My guess will be they probably will be educated to HIPPA rules (and a few other volunteers who have passed the info on in order to help not hurt may also get their eyes open that unless they have your permission they shouldn't be doing that).. Then the couple probably should get  the worst of the reprimand on them passing on negative impressions and hurting your child's chance for success. This is something anyone with half a brain would know that it was wrong to do, even while they were doing it.

[Adamcp]

I wish you much luck in resolving this issue so that your son finds a welcoming troop. 

 

Two observations:

In our troop there are several scouts who show traits and symptoms of Aspergers & PDD.  My experiences with other troops at Council wide events suggests that other troops in the area appear to similarly attract boys with these types of traits.

 

And secondly, Scouting seems to me to a great match for these boys (chicken and egg with point 1), so the BSA would do well to make sure that leaders understand the most effective ways to support these boys and their families.  With some encouragement, I have seen some boys do their best socializing and connecting at Summer Camp, have seen the boys efforts to cook together on camping trips to both challenge the boys in their collaborative efforts and to give them a chance to grow, and yet also be a way for the boys to indulge some of their interests independently, too.

 

I find that these boys do best when expectations around socializing and collaborating are made clear, and perhaps with less subtlety and nuance than with some other boys.  I hope that this idea is not offensive.  I think it is meeting the boys "where they are at".  I do not myself nor do I encourage senior scouts to be rude, just clear and gentle and direct in what is expected. Without some direction, I have seen boys set up their own tent and stay apart during camping trips, perhaps reading in their tents to their hearts content, but staying to themselves.  Once I became SM, this tendency was one of my first camping aims to change.  Before that, no one in the troop was making any changes because the boys were not complaining, but I saw it as a lost opportunity for the whole troop.  Once the expectation of tenting with other boys was made clear, everything went fine (well usually, they are boys after all), and some really nice moments came from the change.  I also am well aware that each boy is different, so this example is not all inclusive, just an example of a guiding principle that has helped the boys in my troop.