Treasurer Dilemma

[Gone]

 

There is a lot to be said for keeping the peace and finding a way to work together.  If we are sure the person had those expenses or will have those expenses, IMHO it is sufficient to write a note explaining the reason and how the amount was determined.  IMHO, this is really no different than if you have a camp out that is seven hours drive round trip and you reimburse $20 for each person in the car.  The drivers have no receipt.  It doesn't cover all the costs.  But as treasurer and troop leaders you can easily defend the reimbursement because you knew they had at least that cost.  

 

 

If the unit is working properly, all events would have a budget with projected costs. These would be managed by the treasurer. Also, any expenses subject to reimbursement would require prior approval. This avoids volunteers going off and buying stuff without authorization.

[fred johnson]

If the unit is working properly, ...

 

... and then we meet reality.  

 

No troop works "properly" for very long.  It's good to know the ideal and the proper method sets expectations.  But then we adjust to support the continually changing volunteer base filled with people of vastly different skills and experiences.  To avoid being that old-boys-club, we welcome volunteers and help them succeed and help them get reimbursed.  Sometimes that means helping them get, recreate or explain a reimbursement.  

[Stosh]

Bad attitude loses volunteers.  Work to get receipts, support the team and find a way to get them reimbursed if they had costs.  

 

Okay, these expenses are for an ECOH from the OP's comment.  Do you really think that once that ceremony is over with you're going to be getting much support if any from the scout or his family?  

 

As SM I've never been reimbursed for anything.  When I drive the receipt gets lost, I'm going to drive anyway so it's my personal expense.  If a couple of boys and their gear happen to be along, it's not going to increase my cost all that much.

 

If it was important and I couldn't afford it.  I would make sure the receipts were turned in.  It's called taking responsibility for one's self.  I expect it from myself, why not my boys, too?

 

So what if the cost of the ECOH is less.  The parents pocket the rest?  Or what if it isn't enough, they come back to well and another check is cut?  Better yet, just give a blank check to begin with.

 

I see too much wiggle room for abuse.  If the parents want something they talk it over with the PLC and the boys take care of everything including the receipts and turning them in.  

[Gone]

... and then we meet reality.  

 

No troop works "properly" for very long.  It's good to know the ideal and the proper method sets expectations.  But then we adjust to support the continually changing volunteer base filled with people of vastly different skills and experiences.  To avoid being that old-boys-club, we welcome volunteers and help them succeed and help them get reimbursed.  Sometimes that means helping them get, recreate or explain a reimbursement.  

 

...and then you meet financial problems.

 

If you have adults that can pay rent, cable bills and car payments then you have adults capable of working to a budget, requesting authorization BEFORE they spend money and following financial discipline. When we dumb it down for people you decrease the accountability. If we expect MORE of scouts why would we expect LESS from the parents.

 

You CAN run a troop with sound financial rules, procedures and policies. It takes no more effort than doing anything else right and it should not put people out. People should know when they join what will and will not be reimbursed AND how to get expenses approved prior to purchase.

 

This is how the adult world works...it should come as no surprise to any volunteer.

[chrisking0997]

not to nit pick too much, but the OP doesnt mention the ECOH....s/he says "Eagle advancement".   COH was mentioned as an example 3 posts later.   Not that I think it makes too much difference (who in their right mind writes what amounts to a blank check from an account that is not theirs with no receipts or accounting of the costs??  That way lies the dark side) and its probably a good assumption, but it would be nice to know if this is indeed for a COH or if they are actually saying to pay project costs, etc.

 

Like I said, its shouldnt matter though...you dont write checks for something without having some sort of accountability on what the money was used for.  OP is rightfully uncomfortable with it.  Id recommend advising the CC that going forward receipts will be required for expenses and that they can either abide by that sensible and ethical request or find someone else to fill the position.  "we've always done it that way" is not an excuse for doing something wrong (isnt it amazing that this is an argument you should be having with the boys, not the adults?!?)

[SeattlePioneer]

<<

I have found that the easiest and most credible process for handling money is to turn in receipts and get reimbursed.  Records of money which belongs to the CO are fully documented, and if the family wants their money, they'll keep their receipts and turn them in.  If that's too much of a hassle, they can simply toss the receipts and suck up the expense on their own.

>>

 

 

I agree that's aule to follow.    However,  there may be families that can't afford or be willing to front such expenses.  I've encountered people who wanted a petty cash fund to buy food for an overnight camp,  and provided a couple of hundred  dollars to do so.  Receipts were later provided so that I could charge off that cash.

 

And I've had people lose receipts.  I've reimbursed people for expenses they clearly incurred,  even without receipts.

 

<<When I was treasurer of a group, I kept impeccable records and when they did a surprise audit, I could account for every penny.  After a while they quit with the stupid audits until after I left.  Of course when I left the records were complete and precise.  That's the job, do it right and most importantly of all, CYA!  It's a bit like YPT.  Precise records protects the treasurer. >>

 

 

Audits are certainly not "stupid."  They are reasonable, prudent and not done as often among Scout groups as they should be.

 

 

As Pack Treasurer,  my records aren't "impeccable at all.  Indeed,  just today I had to call the Pack Committee Chair to ask how he had paid for Cub Scout Day Camp.  He had told me to use his family's Scout Account,  but I hadn't made out a receipt for that transaction and forgotten it in the mean time.  The Cubmaster may have accepted a check to pay for a pack membership a couple of months ago,  and if so hasn't turned it over to me.  I'm tracking that down now. 

 

<<No troop works "properly" for very long.  It's good to know the ideal and the proper method sets expectations.  But then we adjust to support the continually changing volunteer base filled with people of vastly different skills and experiences.  To avoid being that old-boys-club, we welcome volunteers and help them succeed and help them get reimbursed.  Sometimes that means helping them get, recreate or explain a reimbursement. >>

 

 

Yep.  My aim is to collect the money we are owed and pay it to people who should be paid,  and to provide financial reports that will reassure pack leaders and families that pack funds are being handled responsibly.  But not "impeccably"  ---- I'm a goodly distance from that!

[fred johnson]

 

...and then you meet financial problems.

 

Not true at all.  Financial problems because of disorganization or dishonesty.  

 

At a paid job, it's easy to be a hard head because people want to keep their jobs and people want to get ahead.  With scouting, each time someone volunteers, that volunteering experience is a marketing the troop and a re-evaluation of does the volunteer want to help again.  Find a way to recreate, document and/or prove the expense happened.  Then get the person reimbursed.  If you play hard nose with volunteers, the easiest response by the volunteer is to not help again.  And that's very reasonable.  

 

... essentially ... find a way to prove the expense an the amount ... and get the person reimbursed.  In the original poster's case, if the troop has the habit of doing it in advance and everyone agrees and it looks like it is not exorbitant but instead reasonable and definite, then just do it.  

 

Personally, I'm not used to reimbursement before the fact.  But it does not seem very unusual. 

 

 

[moosetracker]

Also, before turning in a receipt make a copy of it.. I did this all but one time.. Guess which one time the DE lost the receipt??

Edited May 26, 2015 by moosetracker

[Gone]

At a paid job, it's easy to be a hard head because people want to keep their jobs and people want to get ahead.  With scouting, each time someone volunteers, that volunteering experience is a marketing the troop and a re-evaluation of does the volunteer want to help again.  Find a way to recreate, document and/or prove the expense happened.  Then get the person reimbursed.  If you play hard nose with volunteers, the easiest response by the volunteer is to not help again.  And that's very reasonable.  

 

 

No one is saying be a hard nose, but you also don't let people willy nilly submit receipts. There should be a very clear set of reimbursable expenses outline for leaders and adults. There should be no mystery as to the process.

 

You seem to be addressing a lost receipt. The best way to do that is take a photo of it as you get it. Everyone has smart phones these days, so that should be a no brainer. If someone loses their receipt you might be able to show a bank statement unless you used cash. Again, properly training folks on how to manage expenses can save all this headache.

 

 

Personally, I'm not used to reimbursement before the fact.  But it does not seem very unusual. 

 

The only time that happens in our unit is large purchases approved by the TC using the unit debit card (other thread). Nice and easy.

[Marco]

First of all, I want to thank you all for your input. Your opinions and discussions have helped me through this stressful incident. Great discussions and insight.

To clarify, the old scoutmaster is working with the new scoutmaster and the chair. They were the ones advising me to write the check without receipts to defer costs involved with attaining eagle. The money is not the issue because we have a pretty strong fundraiser. I know some of you asked for more details, I am leaving some things vague intentionally, because I do not want to publicly shame anyone involved.

In the end I said "No receipt, no check. If you don't like it, 'fire' me." This after explaining the tax implications, the bad precedent it would set, the accounting problems, etc.

It made a few people angry (and I think some still think I am being unreasonable) but in the end they agreed to submit receipts. And we are doing the right thing!

Thanks so much for your time! I was really starting to doubt myself until reading your input.

[fred johnson]

Nice work Marco.  I wish you the best.  Just be careful and look to see if you can rebuild the relationships with the people who might be upset.  

[SeattlePioneer]

Right now I'm trying to track down a 2015 pack membership a parent said they made in early March to the Cubmaster.  He doesn't remember receiving such a payment.

 

The payment was apparently a check.

 

I've asked the parent to send me a copy of the check if it was cashed,  and a replacement check if it wasn't.

 

This has generated eight or ten e-mails so far.

[Gone]

 

The payment was apparently a check.

 

I've asked the parent to send me a copy of the check if it was cashed,  and a replacement check if it wasn't.

 

This has generated eight or ten e-mails so far.

 

Someone has some "splainin" to do. You'd think a check was easy enough to find.

[SeattlePioneer]

It's all to easy to lose track of paperwork of any kind,  in my experience.

 

I have to be quite disciplined in order to avoid losing track of bits of paper.

[Gone]

It's all to easy to lose track of paperwork of any kind,  in my experience.

 

I have to be quite disciplined in order to avoid losing track of bits of paper.

 

Think you're being nice.

 

You: "Hey BadWolf, I show you still owe dues. Can you pay?"

 

Me: "I already did. I gave a check to the CM."

 

You: "Okay. Thanks. I'll ask him for it. Would you have a copy of the check? The paper copy in the register you could send me? Check number?"

 

Me: "Sure! I will send it to you when I get home."

 

[Copy of the check is sent, review of bank statement says CM has it.]

 

In our unit only the Treasurer can take money/checks. We've been told no SMs take ANY paperwork. Parents can't get stuff in on time and they can make the special trip to the Treasurer's house.