Homosexuals Are Not Pedophiles

[AZMike]

Where is the spirit of compromise in the part of those who oppose these changes? What ideas have they offered as compromise modifications?

On the contrary, the opposing view to these changes has failed to do much more than gripe about the changes and make apocalyptic predictions as they wring their hands. THAT is not leadership either.

 

One can only compromise with the other party if one is in a position to set terms for all the parties involved. 

 

There are scouters within the BSA community who would like to see the acceptance of homosexuals as adult leaders, and see the so-called Local Option as a compromise to allow troops that wish to maintain traditional values to continue to do so, and troops that wish to allow homosexual leaders to do so. That's fine, and I don't doubt that you and others in the latter category are sincere in your beliefs.

 

But you are not in a position to speak for the very large and very well-funded forces outside of scouting that demand that NO troop be allowed to maintain traditional values, whether under a local option or the current situation. You can not speak for them or arrange for a compromise for them. ACT-UP and GLAAD do not know who you are, Packsaddle, and do not consider themselves bound by any compromise you or anyone else makes.  Their agenda is quite clear and the evidence is open and readily available. The current legal situation is too fluid to allow anyone in the BSA to state authoritatively that the local option will permit troops that hold to traditional views of morality to continue as they are.

 

Do you consider that assessment reasonable?

[tyke]

 maintain traditional values 

 

Traditional values being bigoted homophobic values. I'm sure that people arguing for maintaining segregation where just holding up traditional values

[Stosh]

If I were to attend any event where my belief system is challenged, I have the right to leave.  If I don't get my money back, no big deal, I took that chance when I paid.

 

Is this the lesson our boys need to learn?  It has nothing to do with bigotry or homophobia, it's simply being honest enough to be loyal to one's belief system, all dynamics the BSA promotes as honorable.  If the emphasis for adults in the BSA program is lead by example, I guess the boys are going to have to make their choice.  I'm thinking a lot of parents with Tiger Cub boys will make that choice for their children.  I really don't need the extra hassle of explaining to my child why we're different.  I live in a strong Amish area of the country and they do just fine with the lifestyle they have chosen.  Are they homophobic or bigoted?  Probably because none of their children are in the BSA.

 

We all make choices in life as to what we want to be exposed to and what we want to avoid.  ... and we all do it regardless of what other people's opinions may be.

[AZMike]

Traditional values being bigoted homophobic values. I'm sure that people arguing for maintaining segregation where just holding up traditional values

 

Both I and my family fought against racial segregation, so your comparison is both ignorant, bigoted, and false. 

 

Rather than arguing the terminology, or trying to marginalize the views held by most Americans until recently by an invalid comparison, why don't you try to address the actual issue raised in the post. Do you disagree that forces outside Scouting will not be content with the so-called "Local Option"? If you do, on what basis do you make that claim?

Edited May 24, 2015 by AZMike

[Peregrinator]

Where is the spirit of compromise in the part of those who oppose these changes? What ideas have they offered as compromise modifications?

On the contrary, the opposing view to these changes has failed to do much more than gripe about the changes and make apocalyptic predictions as they wring their hands. THAT is not leadership either.

When did the ability to compromise become a feature of leadership?

[Scouter99]

Where is the spirit of compromise in the part of those who oppose these changes? What ideas have they offered as compromise modifications?

On the contrary, the opposing view to these changes has failed to do much more than gripe about the changes and make apocalyptic predictions as they wring their hands. THAT is not leadership either.

I wonder what you'd be saying about the competition of ideas if the Southern Baptist Convention decided to switch all its units to BPSA and amend BPSA's policies to exclude gays.

[Stosh]

When did the ability to compromise become a feature of leadership?

 

Never did.  People, including leaders, do not not need to compromise anything.  One of the choices in life is whether or not one compromises,  One of the two options is no they don't have to.

[packsaddle]

BDPT00 raised the concept of 'compromise' along with leadership. I'm just accepting the parameters of his argument.

 

AZMike, I consider the assessment speculative. Nothing has happened yet. Change of some kind is inevitable and I've never seen predictions about the behavior of groups of people that were worth much. To me it would be more reasonable to wait and see. If the dire predictions that I'm reading come to pass then we will all know more than we do now. We may not know what to do about the situation but at least we'll have a better idea of what the situation actually is.

[Sentinel947]

Traditional values being bigoted homophobic values. I'm sure that people arguing for maintaining segregation where just holding up traditional values

What a tolerant and open minded opinion you have there! 

[packsaddle]

I wonder what you'd be saying about the competition of ideas if the Southern Baptist Convention decided to switch all its units to BPSA and amend BPSA's policies to exclude gays.

I'd say that's their choice and if that's what those COs want to do, then good for them.

Edited May 25, 2015 by packsaddle

[Stosh]

If one does not think and believe the way I do, that must surely mean they are intolerant bigots, especially if their thoughts and beliefs are based in their religious traditions.  - A Scout is Reverent.  We're supposed  to be tolerant of other people's religious beliefs and traditions.  But now it's getting to the point where the political discussion as gone religious.  When politics and religion combine, that's when things always seem to go haywire.  At least that's been the pattern over the past 4,000 years.

[Peregrinator]

BDPT00 raised the concept of 'compromise' along with leadership. I'm just accepting the parameters of his argument.

I've read his comments a couple times now and it doesn't seem to me that he views compromise as a positive feature of leadership.

[Stosh]

I've read his comments a couple times now and it doesn't seem to me that he views compromise as a positive feature of leadership.

 

Just depends on what the people want that are following.  If they want someone to stand firm, then compromise is off the table for that leader to be effective.  If they want compromise, then it's a high priority.  Compromise is not a feature of leadership.  It may be a goal of a certain leader when those following want it to be.

[Peregrinator]

Right, it seems to me that BDPT00 was pointing out that only one "side" is ever asked to compromise. But the ability to compromise is not a feature of leadership. It's more of a bug.

[BDPT00]

Thank you.  What I was trying to say was that only one side of this particular 'battle' is willing to compromise.  The problem is that what's being compromised is values.  We clearly have disagreements about those values, but one side in this issue is trying to save a national institution based on values.  The other has a 'take no prisoners' approach, and it's working.