Peregrinator Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 99% of the pedophiles happen to be heterosexuals That's an interesting statistic, where did you get it from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZMike Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) They were all pedophiles.. I guess if you look for a needle in a haystack you are able to find 2 or 3 examples, but those are needle in haystack examples.. 99% of the pedophiles happen to be heterosexuals.. So we should ban all heterosexuals from being adult scout leaders.. You never can be too careful.. Oh, so not everyone who identifies themselves as "gay" to the community is actually trustworthy. Some self-identified homosexuals are actually interested in sex with teenage boys. Can I ask you to go back and read what I actually wrote. We are talking about the risks from pederasts here, as we are dealing with an almost exclusively male population of potential victims. Why are you talking about pedophiles, and where did you get the statistic that 99% of those are heterosexual? Given that 2% of the population is estimated to be homosexuals, why then do homosexuals account for far more than 2% of the sexual assaults on minors? Edited May 23, 2015 by AZMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle77 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Longtime since I posted here, but this is a very hot topic and I would like to give my 2 cents. I graduated into Boy Scouts in 1970, before the big change of 72 (which also saw some members leave). A few years later a new scoutmaster was assigned to my troop by our CO (Baptist Church) a couple months afterwards this man tried to make some moves on me. For what it's worth nothing happened, by him or by me. If I had a little more idea on how to handle it things may have been very different. One thing I new was if I reported what had happened my father would have been in prison when a graduated high school. I think one of the main reasons that I never reported it was because this guy was a Deacon in our CO. One thing for sure was what he did did not take away from my love of scouting and what it stood for, so I brushed it off earned my Eagle started my family and came back to BSA with my son. I stayed alot longer then my son and soon became scoutmaster of a troop and held it for 11 years. Finally though I had to really get out because of the politics both personal and scouting. Let's face it those of us who did the program or came in as adults cannot find anything else out there that offers so much as scouting. My problem though is for a country that claims to be free, we sure have a good deal of problems sharing good things with different types of people that live in the same country as us. Why shouldn't any young boy (or girl) be able to share and enjoy this? The idea that having a gay leader is going to teach me to look more at the football players instead of the cheerleaders is crazy. Like it or not unless you want to go and live off the grid sooner or later we all will meet or already have met OTHERS. We all can find good and bad deeds done by any group. I think though with the things that have been added to protect our scouts today are far better then what was in place when I was a scout. Some of these have also taken away from what scouting really was at one time. One thing for sure change is not easy and either way will hurt the program, but more importantly the scouts. I think the local option is a fair compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZMike Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) Longtime since I posted here, but this is a very hot topic and I would like to give my 2 cents. I graduated into Boy Scouts in 1970, before the big change of 72 (which also saw some members leave). A few years later a new scoutmaster was assigned to my troop by our CO (Baptist Church) a couple months afterwards this man tried to make some moves on me. For what it's worth nothing happened, by him or by me. If I had a little more idea on how to handle it things may have been very different. One thing I new was if I reported what had happened my father would have been in prison when a graduated high school. I think one of the main reasons that I never reported it was because this guy was a Deacon in our CO. One thing for sure was what he did did not take away from my love of scouting and what it stood for, so I brushed it off earned my Eagle started my family and came back to BSA with my son. I stayed alot longer then my son and soon became scoutmaster of a troop and held it for 11 years. Finally though I had to really get out because of the politics both personal and scouting. Let's face it those of us who did the program or came in as adults cannot find anything else out there that offers so much as scouting. My problem though is for a country that claims to be free, we sure have a good deal of problems sharing good things with different types of people that live in the same country as us. Why shouldn't any young boy (or girl) be able to share and enjoy this? The idea that having a gay leader is going to teach me to look more at the football players instead of the cheerleaders is crazy. Like it or not unless you want to go and live off the grid sooner or later we all will meet or already have met OTHERS. We all can find good and bad deeds done by any group. I think though with the things that have been added to protect our scouts today are far better then what was in place when I was a scout. Some of these have also taken away from what scouting really was at one time. One thing for sure change is not easy and either way will hurt the program, but more importantly the scouts. I think the local option is a fair compromise. I'm sorry that happened to you, eagle77. When historical revisionists argue that the ban on homosexual leaders is a new thing, and that there was some sort of Golden Age of tolerance when there was a de facto local option, and homosexual leaders were accepted, I think they are living in Cloud Cuckoo-Land. The sort of experience you had was not uncommon - the files that were released by the BSA on adult leaders who committed homosexual acts on scouts would make anyone's stomach turn, and the renewed emphasis in the BSA in the 1970s was largely in response to increasing awareness of the rate of molestation of youths - it had become an epidemic, and scout leaders could no longer turn their backs and assume that an organization composed of teen-age boys would not attract men who were sexually interested in them. We're forgetting those lessons now. I have to disagree with you on the local option, which in my opinion will not remain an option for long. As gay activists have made clear (see the quotes above), they will not accept a BSA where some - or any - COs will still be allowed to exclude gays. They are well-funded, have a formidable legal machinery that supports them, and will attack any remaining COs that do not want to allow homosexual men to have access to teenagers in what are often isolated situations. The local option will remain local for about 6 months to a year, tops. Due to the risk of lawsuits for discrimination against any remaining resisting COs, a uniform policy requiring that homosexual men can become leaders will then become the status quo throughout the BSA. Traditionally-minded troops will close down, if they cannot accept the moral compromise the new policy and the court decisions will require. As I said, I cannot ethically be a part of that, or a situation where a vulnerable boy will again be placed in the kind of situation you were. I wish those who wish to continue in the "New Model" BSA good luck, and I hope things work out for you under the new leadership. Edited May 23, 2015 by AZMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 The sexuality of a Scout, adult or youth, is not BSA's concern. The highly esteemed Youth Protection Training is affective for leaders (or Scouts) of any persuasion. The YPT , if enforced, requires a certain morality of overt behavior that has nothing to do with how the included person(s) behave in private. And I don't think we have established a "Sexuality Merit Badge". The fact of human sexuality should be discussed, but not , to my mind, in a Scout meeting. The argument/example given by NJCubmaster about his brother is instructive. "Living in sin" can be many things (to many people). If LDS can do Scouting, and Cambodian Buddhists can do Scouting, and Volunteer Firemen can do Scouting, and Sikhs can do Scouting, and American Legions can do Scouting, each with their own attached modifications, (I have had to disabuse folks many times of the idea that Scouting is a "Christian" organization), I fail to see how BSA can "offishully" declare that only X,Y,Z people can be Scouts? Anybody got any extra stones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Had a few friends over for burgers and beers earlier tonight. The Gates speech came up in conversation. One of my friends is the Parish Priest from a parish near by. He used to be our PP but got moved. He was at one time the Executive Officer for the Pack, when my kid was a Cub Scout. The conversation was a little like what is happening here in the forum, people taking sides, people seeing it as inevitable, others seeing it as the beginning of the end. My pal the good Priest after he had finished a burger and a beer shook his head and said that if the Holy Father on his plane is giving mixed signals? I really don't know. I think that I'm with the good Priest. Eamonn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouter99 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Scouter99 the book is on abuse of scouts in BSA by PEDOPHILES, not gays... Most have a persona of the family man husband, wife children, church goer, civic minded.. Pedophiles will never be your openly homosexual person because of people like you who equate the two words of homosexual and pedophile as the same.. A pedophile takes on a persona that will allow parents and children to trust him and think nothing about letting their children be alone with them.. An openly homosexual scoutmaster will not have that type of trust, at least I don't see it in any near future.. As for your book, if these men abused children then they are not gay, they are pedophiles. It is that simple. Gay men are no more a threat to teenage boys then I am to the teenage girls in my troop. In the politest terms, neither of you has the slightest idea what the words you're using mean. I have replied to you here: http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/27240-homosexuals-are-not-pedophiles/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouter99 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) The sexuality of a Scout, adult or youth, is not BSA's concern. The highly esteemed Youth Protection Training is affective for leaders (or Scouts) of any persuasion. The YPT , if enforced, requires a certain morality of overt behavior that has nothing to do with how the included person(s) behave in private. And I don't think we have established a "Sexuality Merit Badge". The fact of human sexuality should be discussed, but not , to my mind, in a Scout meeting. The argument/example given by NJCubmaster about his brother is instructive. "Living in sin" can be many things (to many people). If LDS can do Scouting, and Cambodian Buddhists can do Scouting, and Volunteer Firemen can do Scouting, and Sikhs can do Scouting, and American Legions can do Scouting, each with their own attached modifications, (I have had to disabuse folks many times of the idea that Scouting is a "Christian" organization), I fail to see how BSA can "offishully" declare that only X,Y,Z people can be Scouts? Anybody got any extra stones? More naïveté. Britian's Scout Association is close enough to a Sexality Merit Badge, it has published a guide to coming out: https://members.scouts.org.uk/factsheets/FS185082.pdf Over and over. Everything you guys say won't happen has already happened. It's like bizarro world. It would be funny if it weren't so dire. Edited May 23, 2015 by Scouter99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle77 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 AZMike, I understand where you are coming from and respect your opinion on it. One point that I would like to make is that as we continue to take away from the ingrediants that made scouting such a great program, we also change the way it tastes too. I live in Pa and have a whole new bunch of rules put in place to prevent or deter the man-boy thing. This will surely chase away any existing members and most likely many future ones as well. I think the one thing that all of us can agree on is the only way to eliminate that problem 100% is to shut down BSA completely. Like it or not some of these types of people will do whatever they need to to get what it is they want. I have many friends at home and work who are gay and don't agree or like many of the things that the LBGT do or are up to. All they want is to be able to live their lives just as everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambridgeskip Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 More naïveté. Britian's Scout Association is close enough to a Sexality Merit Badge, it has published a guide to coming out: https://members.scouts.org.uk/factsheets/FS185082.pdf Over and over. Everything you guys say won't happen has already happened. It's like bizarro world. It would be funny if it weren't so dire. You have taken that somewhat out of context. The factsheet is not there as part of any kind of award system, it is there to reflect the fact that scouting, at least in the UK, does not exist in a vacuum. Scout Leaders are trusted adults in the lives of young people and that means that young people may wish to talk to us about many issues, some of which will be personal issues. So in that context TSA produces material, some of it aimed at young people, some of it geared towards adults, to provide help and advice on a number of issues. Coming out is one of them. Also included is divorce, bereavement, eating disorders, and many others. All things that some and in some cases all teenagers will have to deal with. And yes. I have had a scout chose to me to come out to. As have other leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouter99 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 You have taken that somewhat out of context. The factsheet is not there as part of any kind of award system, My man, do they not have figurative language over there? Our trusting friend SSScout, and our various pro-gay pals say none of this will lead to discussions of sexuality and sex within Scouting, but the simple fact is that the example is already there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CricketEagle Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) Bottom line...the fix is in regardless of what we local leaders and chartered organization think. After recent dealings with national and local I firmly believe BSA simply acts only in a manner to avoid short term lawsuits and not consider the long term effects on the organization and individuals. In my opinion this fits the pattern I have observed. The alternative organization looks better each day based on the corporate attitude of BSA alone. Just another unhappy SM. Edited May 23, 2015 by CricketEagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Unfortunately, I'm starting to develop a real appreciation for child molesters. They are the only people who appear to respect the right of the Boy Scouts to exclude them from membership or leadership positions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Unfortunately, I'm starting to develop a real appreciation for child molesters. They are the only people who appear to respect the right of the Boy Scouts to exclude them from membership or leadership positions. That is a ridiculous statement. Nobody in this forum is advocating that child molesters be allowed to be members or leaders of the Boy Scouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghjim Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 So I wonder if this is going to be voted on, like last time. Then we will really see if the majority is opposed to gay leaders. Or is Gates going to try to mandate this? Seems like Randall Stephenson was talking like that and he got the boot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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