Shared Leadership - The Role Of The ASM?

[Eamonn]

In another thread there was talk about youth members attending an adult leaders meeting. I had never heard of such a meeting. It might be that I'm out of touch but I never felt the need for such a meeting.I always seen myself as the guy who was in charge of trainining the Patrol Leaders, they came up with the plan and the program. The ASM was there to perform the duties that I asked him too. Yes there were ASM's that had skills that we put to use. Maybe if we were doing something that one of the ASM's was good at I would ask him to take charge of that. Or if we were doing some skill at the PLC that the patrol leaders would pass on to their patrols and the ASM was better at teaching this skill then I might be, he would at my request do this.

This idea of shared leadership is a new one to me.How does it work? What becomes of the Scoutmaster?

Eamonn

[acco40]

From a Cub Scout perspective (where I believe the phrase originated) this is what we did:

 

If a den chooses to, instead of the Den Leader being the sole person responsible for every single den meeting from start to finish, another option is Shared Leadership. The Den Leader becomes the contact point for pack and den communications and can act as a coach in planning activities.

 

1) Each adult partner with his/her Cub Scout is responsible to plan and run an entire den meeting. That meeting would be held in that parents home or at the location scheduled for that particular den. The meeting should deal with achievements or electives from the Wolf, Bear or Webelos book. Another thing to keep in mind when planning a den meeting is the monthly theme coming up for the next pack meeting.

 

2) The Den Leader should have a list of dates for the den meetings during the course of the year. From that list each parent should volunteer for a number of meetings (based on the number of meetings and the number of scouts in the den) to plan and run and communicate what will be done in advance to the rest of the scouts and parents.

 

From a Boy Scout perspective, the role of the SM and SA is of course very different than that of the den leader. The SM's primary responsibility is to teach leadership skills to the youth. The SA's responsibility is to carry out tasks assigned by the SM. However, most SMs do not act in an autocratic manner. The SA's should also be able to fill in for the SM in his absence.

 

To me, one sign of a good leader is the ability to delegate a task (not necessarily the responsibility, but the task.). The SAs should see themselves as contributing to the development of the youth and not just as "gofers" for the SM. IMO, the "rules and regulations" of the BSA provide for much leeway in the duties of the SM and SA. Granted, the SM and the SAs all need to be on the same page so to speak but I've seen too many autocratic, "my way or the highway" SMs in my day. THe SM should not monopolize the troop.

(This message has been edited by acco40)

[Bob White]

Acco40, I am surprised by your post. I find that you are usually right on in your understanding and use of the BSA program. But, I have no idea where you got the info you shared on the role of the Den Leader and the workings of a den meeting. I can assure you that (accept for a vague resemblance to how Tiger Dens were operated for a short period during its formation) there is not, and has not been in the past, anything in the BSA Cub Scout program that resembles what you wrote. As an example look at page 20-1 of the current Cub Scout Leader Book.

 

The term "sharing leader" had its origin in Wood Badge. It refers to the "leader" of a group allowing the members of the group to participate in decision making, and to make use of the resources available to the group in the form of the skills and knowledge possessed by each member. A good leader draws on those skills as needed to get the job done.

 

My experience as a Scoutmaster was similar to Eamonn's. I would meet on an informal basis with the Assistant Scoutmasters to evaluate past activity, plan future ones and do some training. This was often done around a campfire over a coffee and cobbler. We did a formal meeting maybe once or twice a year usually related to a major activity. Other than that we trained the scouts to make decisions, form a plan, and follow it. Making the program work was a responsibility shared by me, the committee chair and the COR. We gave direction to those we lead to support that activity.

 

By sharing the leadership the ASMS in the areas of physical arrangements, transportation, QM, Webelos recruitment, etc. I was free to observe, evaluate, and train.

 

As a Den Leader, wife learned to share leadership with the ADL, Den Chief and Denner. My wife and the ADL made the plans and each of them played a role in carrying it out.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[ScoutNut]

Actually, Tiger Dens have been operating under the "Shared Leadership" principal for many years and still are operated that way today. Acco40 did a fairly good job of describing how Tiger Dens should be currently run.

 

However, the other Cub Scout dens are not run that way. It is fine to use your families as resource people for particular things. Also, in Webelos dens using your parents skills to teach a specific activity badge is strongly encouraged. But the designated den leader and his/her assistant(s) are the ones who run the dens.

[acco40]

Folks, I think semantics is getting in our way. Let's say a Major General, in charge of a division, commands a Colonel to make sure all the vehicles in his Brigade are "nice and shiny" for the upcoming parade. The Colonel commands his battalion commander to make sure his vehicles are in good working order and in "presentation" shape. The battalion commander tells a Captain (company commander) the same. The Captain informs the platoon leader, Lieutenant Smith to clean the HMMWVs in his platoon. Lt. Smith informs his Sergeant to make sure HMMWV #216 is all bright. Sarge tells Private First Class Bob White to clean the vehicle by 0800 the following day. Who is responsible for the cleanliness of vehicle #216? Some would argue the Private, others the General.

 

In my den leader example, with shared leadership, the den leader never abdicates responsibility for den leadership. However, as presented to the other parents of the boys in the den, the DL requests that they "lead" (plan, organize, conduct) a den meeting. This methodology was implemented so as not to discourage adults from taking on the DL position and having the sole burden of planning and conducting a quality year round program with weekly den meetings. When I was a den leader (particularly at the Wolf and Bear level) I "chaired" 100% of the den meetings, conducted approximately 50% of the den meeting activities and the other parents conducted the rest. Regardless if you call this delegation of tasks or shared leadership, the results are the same. I have found that presenting it as shared leadership to the other parents made it more palatable than simply letting them know that they have been delegated a specific task.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[Bob White]

However, as presented to the other parents of the boys in the den, the DL requests that they "lead" (plan, organize, conduct) a den meeting.

 

Sorry Acco, but outside of the Tiger Den this is not a method found in any program training or recommendations of the BSA, and is in fact quite oppossite of what is taught and supported in the Cub Scout program.

[ScouterPaul]

Bob White

Are you saying that the DL must plan, organize, conduct every den meeting? What if he/she is out of town or sick. What if one of the parents is a doctor or nurse and they wanted to do a meeting on first aid? Parents are resources and I attempt to use every resource that I can.

 

This is exactly how or DE recruits leaders out our annual Fall Roundup. He asks for parent helpers....

[Bob White]

"Bob White, Are you saying that the DL must plan, organize, conduct every den meeting?"

 

No. I am sharing what the Cub Scout program training, and the resources of the Cub Scout program say. See page 20-1 of the Cub Scout Leader Handbook. Den meetings are planned and lead by the Den Leader, Assistant Den Leader, and the Den Chief.

 

If I had a parent that was a woodworker and we were doing Craftsman, I would ask that parent to help for the 15 or 20 minutes that we did that portion. But that parent is not the Den Leader and should not be given the duties of the den leader. The leader should understand and use the aims and methods of the Cub Scout program. Parents are not trained or practiced in those skills. The Den Leaders lead the den, and the den program, according to the Cub Program which hopefully all Cub Leaders support and follow.

[scouter659]

Hello all. Actually I was the person that posted in the previous thread regarding the Leaders Meetings. I dont think youre out of touch at all. I do think that the leadership structure of most Scout Troops vary from Unit to Unit. In our case, we have in excess of 20 very active ASMs, 12 of which are Wood Badge Trained (four of whom who have served on Staff) the rest except for one great new guy are all basic trained. We are a close knit group passionate about the Unit and helping to turn young boys into better human beings. We also subscribe heavily to the boy-run concept and Patrol Method of Scouting. We also meet as a leadership group, perhaps, in a sharing of ideas that keeps enhancing our program. Its just the structure of how we do things. And now, we plan on including our SPL and Junior Asst. Scoutmasters to those meetings that were previously inclusive. Like most Units, we are always evolving and changing. This works for us and we are, proudly, one of the premier Units in our District and Council. We also have a Year-Long Junior Leader Training program, the most comprehensive training system that we know of to train our youth to lead better. That, I would guess is an unheard of concept as well. I feel lucky to be involved in such a smooth running, diverse and concerned group of people who are focused on an ongoing set of goals to be the best we can be. It just works for us. As Scoutmaster, I very much appreciate the input of everyone and I still have the final say. But I do appreciate your comments.

[EagleInKY]

Eamonn

 

Your original thread has been hijacked by an, albeit good, discussion regarding Den Leader responsibilities. Nevertheless, I'll give you a thought or two.

 

We're a small, new troop (9 boys). Every family has at least one adult volunteer (either SM, ASM or MC). Our monthly committee meetings include the ASM. We do that for communications purposes, and so that everyone has a voice. My opinion is that Committee members need to be there, the Scoutmaster needs to be there (I know some disagree) and the ASMs are optional. Most come because they want to know what is going on and express their opinions.

 

As for the troop meetings, I am the adult in charge (working with the boy leaders to run the meeting, of course). The ASMs assist as I ask them to - teaching a skill, assisting a patrol, overseeing a game, etc. We typically decide these in our PLC planning, as we plan a month in advance.

[acco40]

Again, maybe I'm just dense, but I still think we just have a semantics program. Let's say as Den Leader, I plan one of next month's meetings this way: Mr. Bob White, could you schedule about 35 minutes of activity for the den on February 24th? We plan to be working on the Engineer activity pin that month. Let me know if you want any ideas or help. Get back with me when you decide what you plan to cover so we can review it together. Thanks.

 

To me that is what I call "shared leadership." Granted, the BSA has a specific definition of shared leadership and how it applies to the Tiger Cub program and that is where the confusion may reside. In my example, has the DL abdicated his/her leadership role? No. Does it go against BSA guidelines? IMO, no. Is it a different definition from what is stated in the BSA literature (wrt Tiger Cubs) and therefore probably not a good term to use? Probably so.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[Bob White]

Two problems that I see Acco40.

What you just wrote is not what you wrote the first time.

 

#1 "Each adult partner with his/her Cub Scout is responsible to plan and run an entire den meeting.

 

#2 "Mr. Bob White, could you schedule about 35 minutes of activity for the den on February 24th"

 

That is a huge difference.

 

Secondly, 35 minutes doing one thing is too long for cub aged scouts, something that most parents may not be cognitive of. For that reason the activity portion of the den meeting should include numerous elements such as stunts, games, skills and craft time. The kinds of things that den leaders are trained to do and parents are not. A 10 to 15 minute program segment is about all that a parent should be responsible for in most cases. Would you agree?

[acco40]

In my last example, the reference was to a Webelos den. Now, I do remember the days when I was a den leader and when conducting an activity such as different bridge structures out of straws and such some of the boys would rush through it at complete a "low grade effort" project in 10 minutes. Others would work meticulously on a project for over 30 minutes. The BIG problem would be what in that twenty minutes of non-overlap. We would strive to keep the early birds busy with another activity, game, etc. and allow the others to finish up. To answer your question, yes 35 minutes may be on the long end for some Webelos but not for all. My rule of thumb was something like 5 minutes for Tigers, ten for Wolf, twenty for Bear and 30 or so for Webelos. Heck, in our Boy Scout troop, ten minutes is too long for some of the boys!

 

#1 "Each adult partner with his/her Cub Scout is responsible to plan and run an entire den meeting.

 

#2 "Mr. Bob White, could you schedule about 35 minutes of activity for the den on February 24th"

 

I admit to being a little devious sometimes. #1 is what we "published" to the parents. #2 is what we really expected. In my original post, I copied from what hand-outs we gave parents (usually newbies). It was our pre-emptive attempt to make sure they realized that their involvement was crucial and that we were not the proverbial baby sitters of America.

 

 

 

 

[Eamonn]

I think that maybe I'm reading too much into "Shared Leadership."

I really don't want to go into how it does or doesn't work in the Pack or Den setting.

In my days serving as Scout Leader/ Scoutmaster in England the troop was made up of 10 Patrols give or take depending on membership. There was of course a SPL along with the other youth positions.There were six active be at every meeting ASM's and six or seven ASM's that were there as needed or as they could make it. Over half of these guys were Wood Badge trained. Of the six that were at every meeting most were very skilled in what might be called Traditional Scouting. They were good at camping, cooking, knoting and that sort of thing. One was the QM. Another took care of the Troop vans.One was the Scoutmaster of a Troop that had closed. He was a great old chap who was one of those old salts that seemed to know everything. However much as he loved Scouting he wasn't that good at working with boys of Scout age. He was the head cook and in charge of the food for the adults when we went camping. The other guys were talented in different areas. One was real big into backpacking and light weight camping.

When we would do the annual plan we kept the skills that were on hand in mind. So there were times when I would ask them to do what they did well and they might work with the Patrol Leaders to help prepare them to teach some skill or maybe at a camp oversee something that the troop was doing or part of the troop was doing. Still with all this going on I never handed over the leadership of the troop to them. The Scoutmasters minute at the end of each troop meeting was mine. If they were at a PLC it was by invitation and then just to go over what they would be doing or passing on the wealth of their knowledge.

Eamonn

[KoreaScouter]

Eamonn;

 

Regarding the role of the ASM, I tend to follow the advice in my old edition (small bound, not hole-punched) SM Handbook. It recommends giving ASMs specific program responsibilities.

 

Here's how I do it. I have four, and would like at least two more (I've told the COR, and he's beating the bushes, but that's another matter). Of the four, one works primarily with the Troop Guide and the first year Scouts to ensure we're taking advantage of and documenting their advancement opportunities as built into meetings and outings. Another works primarily with the Life-to-Eagle lads, counseling them on projects and the workbooks, advising them on MB decisions and coaching/cheerleading them when they feel overwhelmed, etc. A third works primarily with the ASPL, helping him lead, train, and follow up with the appointed Troop leaders. My fourth, due to work schedules and other issues, doesn't have specific program responsibilities, although he does regularly attend meetings and outings for "two-deep" purposes.

 

I schedule a short meeting with them right before each monthly committee meeting, to see if they have any issues for the committee, and to look over next month's program. We also jaw before/after Troop meetings, and during outings.

 

KS