Tour Permit For Scouts On Their Own?

[Gone]

Had an interesting topic come up. Have a parent taking their sons to a camp "back home" this summer. They are registering as lone scouts plus the parent. the parent has YPT but is not fully trained. The camp is asking for a tour permit. Since the parent is not fully trained they are not technically valid to be the lead on the tour permit.

 

Any one ever encounter something like this? I was surprised the camp wants a tour permit for essentially "lone scouts". Any suggestions on how to handle?

Edited May 15, 2015 by Bad Wolf

[Eagle94-A1]

That's a new one for me. Does the camp have a 'Provisional Week" or "Provisional Troop?" At one camp I worked at, there was a week set aside where 2 volunteers and/or camp staffers were put in charge of a troop os Scouts who attended camp on their own. One summeron staff I was the "Provisional SM" since about 1/3 of the Scouts were from my home troop coming for a second week of camp.

 

At another camp, they have volunteers every week who serve as provisional SM. They go for free ( thankfully) and used to get a discount for a Scout in their troop for each week they are there. When I was on staff, we had one guy volunteer the entire summer, and that is how he got his Scouts to camp.

[RememberSchiff]

Sort of. I encountered this when my son was the only one to sign-up for an out-of-state scout activity. He wanted to go and so we were a Troop of 2 and the question arose did I need a tour permit.

 

No. A tour permit is not required for a parent solely acting as a parent. Current YP was required and I had health forms just in case.

[RichardB]

Tour Permits went away circa 2011....A Tour and Activity Plan is current.   http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/HealthandSafety/TourPlanFAQ.aspx 

 

I'm not sure there is enough information in the OP to give guidance other than the camp and parent / Lone Scout need to work it out.......there is typically not a tour for two folks, even parent / son.

[Stosh]

I would say the boy needs his health form and that's it.  Parents driving their scout to a camp do not need a tour permit and if the lone scout gets into the provisional troop, then that should solve the leadership issue.  The parent may need to pay for his/her attendance due to the fact that the 2-deep of the provisional may have already been met.

 

This is all neat and tidy paperwork issue, but when it comes to practicality, how does a real lone scout get to go anywhere if there is no one to sign his tour permit?  If son and dad want to travel half way across the country to attend a summer camp, do they need to keep with the # hours driven or miles covered per day?  I don't believe a scout in his parent's car does not need the permit anymore than a parent driving their son to any other activity in BSA.

[Gone]

Thanks @@Stosh, @@RichardB, @@RememberSchiff, @@Eagle94-A1.

 

I suspected as much. The provisional troop approach was my fist thought. I suspect the camp may not have that program. The fall back position would be to attach them to a local troop. Having all the right forms I figured that was a prerequisite. The tour plan seemed overkill and invalid since it's not a troop activity.

 

Most appreciated.

[scoutldr]

Technically he is not a "Lone Scout" unless he is registered as such.  Since he's a member of a unit, they are asking for a tour plan, I guess. Seems strange that they don't have provisions for "Provisionals".  We did it all the time.  The provisional scout is assigned to another troop in attendance if the troop is willing.  It was always a good experience for our troop.

[blw2]

all that being said, & by my rudimentary understanding it all makes sense....

but that being said, why not just fill out the stupid piece of meaningless paper so they can have it in hand?

It seems to be not that big a deal, and might grease the skids for some overzealous paper hound.

[Gone]

all that being said, & by my rudimentary understanding it all makes sense....

but that being said, why not just fill out the stupid piece of meaningless paper so they can have it in hand?

It seems to be not that big a deal, and might grease the skids for some overzealous paper hound.

 

Because for a tour plan to be valid there has to be an SM in charge. Also, that SM must have the basic minimum training (e.g., weather, CPR, first aid, IOLS, leader-specific). So they must be a "trained" leader AND have the minimum required training to hear up the activities covered in the tour plan. Filling out a tour plan puts this personal outing on the troop.

 

For example, if I want to take may sons kayaking at the Summit, does the troop fill out a tour plan and accept responsibility for that outing? What about heading to PTC on our own? Does the troop fill it out then too? From what I have heard from my council this is considered a personal trip and needs to be covered by the sponsoring council under any accommodations they have for such scouts.

 

As others have said, being part of a contingent or getting connected with another troop seem to be the more standard ways this is handled. I've marked the "solution" (cool feature) so that if any one else has this issue in future they can see the debate and the most likely method of resolving this issue.

[RichardB]

Would really suggest reviewing the FAQ's at the link provided.....Many assumptions already in the thread that may or may not be valid.   

[Gone]

Would really suggest reviewing the FAQ's at the link provided.....Many assumptions already in the thread that may or may not be valid.   

 

Good point, but in this situation (parent taking sons to an out of council camp without the unit) our council has responded that a tour plan is not appropriate since the unit is not doing anything.

[walk in the woods]

Or, the parent could just blow off the paperwork and go camping sans the BSA.  Way too complicated an effort just to take a kid to camp.  Maybe I'm just grouchy.

Edited May 15, 2015 by dcsimmons

[RichardB]

So with the extra info - taking to another camp - if part of another unit - tag into that unit (BS, Team, Crew).   If this is a Mom and Me / Dad and Lad (CS) then the tour and activity plan is just a tool to plan their outing (as the unit they are coming from could complete the task as well) it will most likely have flags during a review either way.   Doesn't mean it cannot be done.    

 

The intent of Tour and Activity Planning is to have a plan, work thru the risks.   Statistically, the travel to and from the event in this endeavor is the high risk activity to have a plan for.    

[NJCubScouter]

Statistically, the travel to and from the event in this endeavor is the high risk activity to have a plan for.

That seems reasonable, and unless I am misreading Bad Wolf's posts, the "travel" consists of a parent driving their own children to a Scouting facility. I don't see why a tour plan would even be required. If it is a parent driving their children, that is not part of the "tour". Is it?

Edited May 15, 2015 by NJCubScouter

[Gone]

Or, the parent could just blow off the paperwork and go camping sans the BSA.  Way too complicated an effort just to take a kid to camp.  Maybe I'm just grouchy.

 

The council where they are going to summer camp is asking them for a tour plan.

 

So with the extra info - taking to another camp - if part of another unit - tag into that unit (BS, Team, Crew).   If this is a Mom and Me / Dad and Lad (CS) then the tour and activity plan is just a tool to plan their outing (as the unit they are coming from could complete the task as well) it will most likely have flags during a review either way.   Doesn't mean it cannot be done.    

 

The intent of Tour and Activity Planning is to have a plan, work thru the risks.   Statistically, the travel to and from the event in this endeavor is the high risk activity to have a plan for.    

 

The scenario is a BS parent taking their scout kids to another council for summer camp. They want to register, they don't have a unit and the council is requiring a tour plan from their home unit. I think the options my council suggesting the other council should offer are: 1) go as part of a contingent, 2) go as a Lone Scout(s), 3) get hooked up with another troop and go under their plan.

 

That seems reasonable, and unless I am misreading Bad Wolf's posts, the "travel" consists of a parent driving their own children to a Scouting facility. I don't see why a tour plan would even be required. If it is a parent driving their children, that is not part of the "tour". Is it?

 

Agreed. This is personal travel to attend a scout camp out of council without the unit. Not sure why the other council would ask for a tour plan, UNLESS the other council does not have a lone scout or contingent program (as others have suggested). Maybe going with another troop is the only option.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Bad Wolf