Scout Led/run Vs: Scouters Teaching

[TAHAWK]

looks to me that it's not a national level thing, but a council level.... just based on looking at one page of google results....

 

I guess looks can be deceiving.  Not to say that BSA is excellent at communication.  Far from it.  But if you were a trainer you would regularly receive training updates. This strangely-worded update was issued in October, 2010.

 

"If you feel you [sic] have all the skills required in Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills it may not be necessary to take the course. Anyone who feels they can demonstrate all of the skills for Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class should contact their District Training Chair and schedule a one-on-one session with a member of the training team. “

 

http://www.scouting.org/Training/TrainingUpdates/Archives/201010.aspx

 

This language appeared as recently as 2015

 

"Introduction to Outdoor Leadership Skills

 

If you feel you have all the skills required in Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills it may not be necessary to take the course. Anyone who feels they can demonstrate all of the skills for Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class should contact their District Training Chair and schedule a one­on­one [sic] session with a member of the training team. This statement also applies to Venturing Youth (over 18 years of age) who are able to demonstrate outdoor leader skills to an IOLS Certified Course Instructor."

[mgood777]

Ok, help me out here. I am a bit rusty from being away from Scouting for so long.

For what, exactly, is IOLS required? Why should I need to test out.

 

As an Eagle Scout, former Philmont Ranger, and someone with 16-17 years in Scouting, I looked over that list on the "test-out" form and I have taught most of those skills at one time or another. (Granted, some of the skills could use a little dusting off because I haven't done much of that in a long time.) Had to take a CPR course last year at work. (I remember being told at the time that Philmont Ranger training was the most challenging outdoor training BSA had to offer.)

 

I even went through Wood Badge in the early nineties, but never wrote a ticket, so no beads here.

Edited May 12, 2015 by mgood777

[TAHAWK]

Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills is part of the basic training for Scoutmaster or Assistant Scoutmaster.  Yiou need credit for IOLS  to be "trained" for those positions and, if the rules are applied, eligible to take Wood Badge.

[mgood777]

Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills is part of the basic training for Scoutmaster or Assistant Scoutmaster.  Yiou need credit for IOLS  to be "trained" for those positions and, if the rules are applied, eligible to take Wood Badge.

 

Gotcha. Thanks.

[DuctTape]

While I didnt get much out of SM fundamentals nor IOLS, the trainers we had were good at recognizing what I already knew and used me to help teach my patrol. I continue in Scouting to help others, I viewed my experience in these trai,ings as just that, an opportunity to help. Our district training chair now has me on a list to help train in the future, especially an Advanced OLS whe/if the finally get it scheduled.

[Eagle94-A1]

After 7 years as a Boy Scout who attended Brownsea 22, the old Scoutmaster Fundamentals Course, which is now divided into SM Specific and IOLS ( and SF had a 3rd module on the "Model Troop Meeting" ) the only thing that I learned new was the paperwork side of things, i.e. the need for tour permits, getting  Safe Swim Defense certified, etc.  Like some others, I could have taught the course, especially the outdoor portion.

 

When I was training chair, one of the things I did was get folks I knew who needed IOLS to be " trained" but already had the knowledge, skills, and abilitities to help staff the event. For example, I got the leader who's been to Philmont 3x and another leader who went through JLT, served on summer camp staff, and was a combat medic to staff the event so they could get credit for the event. As well as provide some great imput.

 

I also had some youth staff teaching courses as a way to A) reinforce the concept of "Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" by showing new leaders that yes the youth can take care of themseleves and B) to get the best staffers in the different areas of training.

 

On a slightly different tangent, I was told I needed to take BALOO (Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation for Cub Scout leaders) to take my pack camping as my SMF and IOLS training didn't count. That was a complete waste of my time as I learned only one new thing: how to tie a bottle knot.

 

What has happened in my neck of the woods is that was started by my successor is that we are getting Cub Scout leaders to IOLS and doing and adding the Cub Scout materials to the course. The participants get a "three for one special" of BALOO, Outdoor Webelos Leader (OWL) and IOLS all in one weekend for those who need it.  National at one time was talking about consolidating all three courses, and some districts combine OWL and IOLS into one weekend.

 

We also do the "Are You Smarter Than a First Class Scout" IOLS test out which is Pass or Fail. So far we have had 100% success rate as the leaders are taking it seriously. Except for the old fogey who doesn't seem to have any time in his retirement to finally get trained. He keeps using "I'm going to Philmont again," or 'That's an OA weekend," or "I'm on the road visiting...." You would think after 50+ years in Scouting, he would finally get trained

[Gone]

Ok, help me out here. I am a bit rusty from being away from Scouting for so long.

For what, exactly, is IOLS required? Why should I need to test out.

 

As an Eagle Scout, former Philmont Ranger, and someone with 16-17 years in Scouting, I looked over that list on the "test-out" form and I have taught most of those skills at one time or another. (Granted, some of the skills could use a little dusting off because I haven't done much of that in a long time.) Had to take a CPR course last year at work. (I remember being told at the time that Philmont Ranger training was the most challenging outdoor training BSA had to offer.)

 

I even went through Wood Badge in the early nineties, but never wrote a ticket, so no beads here.

As I suspected, you're over qualified to be a Scoutmaster.

 

Test out, teach your instructors all you've learned and pass on that knowledge.

[blw2]

as a cub scouter, I found the baloo thing frustrating....

in an effort to help my pack have more people get baloo I tried and tried.... could never find a class to take....

they were offered rarely, they were NEVER offered in the summer when our pack duties were light and I could more easily attend

 

I think it took close to 2 years before I was able to attend one....

we were told to bring our camp chairs, and I was set for a day in the outdoors.

wrong.... 100% indoors in a church hall.

Even the outdoor cooking... we all wrapped our tin soldiers in the kitchen, and staff took them outside to grille while we sat and listened some more....

 

teachers were stuck on their scripts.  Bless them, as I know they are volunteers and were doing their best to help us all.... but I don't think any of us were amateurs needing rudimentary training on staking out a tent or the talk about different kinds of sleeping bags.... oh or lanterns..... we were lifelong campers, former scouts, many eagle (I know that doesn't necessarily mean much, but it does mean they have been camping a time or two...)..... but they stuck to the script.

 

there were some interesting rat trail discussions with the group, but as Eagle94 said about the iols, the only thing of value to most would be the discussions about rules and requirements.... tour permits, etc....  but even all of that was a hotly contested discussion.  Clear as mud.

 

I considered it 99.99995% a waste of time.

but even still I think I wouldn't want to test out since it was only a day, well not even a full day  

& There was some group discussion that was valuable, networking, etc...

 

and then moving forward, OWL seems to never be offered round here without being combined with IOLS.... and even those are rarely offered.  I must admit that I'm not too excited about giving up a valuable weekend, knowing that it is very likely to be BALOO, part 2.... but I'm starting to think about doing it soon.....

 

I like the idea of combining all three, but I don't think that a cub scouter should be required to invest a weekend just for baloo.... and honestly, I'll bet it would be possible to cover all three very well on a single long saturday anyway.

[TAHAWK]

Eagle 94-A1, Brownsea Double Two (AKA Brownsea II or Brownsea 22 ) was a training course for Senior Patrol Leaders created by Bill Hillcourt and part of the back-to-basics push within BSA that he headed up under the banner of "All Out for Scouting"   It was one indication of the death of  the horrible "Improved Scouting Program."  All Out for Scouting officially ended in 1980 and the Brownsea Double Two trained insignia was withdraw from further issue in 1982.

 

Probably most here know the following.  As the Cub outdoor program has significant differences from the Scout outdoor program, Scouters who will be leading Cub outdoor activities need some way to learn the cub program, even if they are world-class masters of Scout outdoor programming.  In an effort to insure adult leadership that is trained in Cubbing outdoor program, BSA requires at least one Baloo graduate to be present at all times during a Cub outdoor event.  One Scouter who took Baloo here last Saturday was an Eagle, Vigil, Philmont Crew leader, and former Canoe Base staffer.  He seemed to have a great time getting ready to help lead outdoor program in his son's pack.  Leadership in Service.

 

My original Scouting mentor always had youth members of adult training staffs.  He said that showing Scouts exercising responsibility was an good way to convince adults that Scouts could be trusted with responsibility.  "Welcome Scouters.  Our topic for the next fifty-five minutes is the annual program-planning workshop." (His idea of being prepared for encountering adults as a trainer included several practice presentations to "hostile" listeners and a "final exam" of the same plus occasionally being pelted with tennis balls.)

 

Poor staff, however well-intentioned,  leads to predictably low-quality training.  I have, however, seen "participants" save the day when session staff was weak.  Training as sharing is hardly the worst outcome.

 

My two councils both offer Baloo in the Spring.  One also offers OWL in the Spring and the other offers OWL in the Spring combined with IOLS. (The rationale is that there is so little difference that it works better together in terms of staffing and participant contribution.).

Edited May 12, 2015 by TAHAWK

[Eagle94-A1]

CM&WD,

 

One of the challenges of putting on good training, especially outdoor training, is the prep work. To do it correctly, and I stress correctly it takes 6-9 months of prepwork i.e. finding a date that can get the most people to attend, recruiting qualified staff, organizing who does what etc. I know the council I grew up in did the training 2 SMF, and later IOLS 2 times a year with one group of districts hosting the spring course, and another group of districts hosting the fall course.  My "troop" had 6 patrols of 8 or 9 from all over the council, and the fall course had a similar number.

 

My current council has it that every district does their own. It's challenging because IMHO there is a lot of duplication of effort, fewer staffers and smaller pool of experts than with a group of districts hostng, and smaller number of participants. Last time I only had 1 patrol, and one time I had only 2 participants. We ended up doing a "test out"  for that session since both had extensive outdoor expereince.

[TAHAWK]

Funnily, one of my councils has insisted for many years that each district do its own IOLS.  Probably a punch list item. That directive has always been ignored.

[mgood777]

As I suspected, you're over qualified to be a Scoutmaster.

 

Test out, teach your instructors all you've learned and pass on that knowledge.

 

LOL. I'm actually a little intimidated of the idea of being the SM. Something I've always thought I'd like to do when I grow up. (I'm 46 ) Dedicating the time to the job, being able to be there all the time would be difficult.

 

I have enjoyed all the training courses I've been to. Even if the material was mostly stuff I'd known for some time, I learned a LOT from discussions with other leaders about how THEY implement the material being taught. My post above was mostly a knee-jerk reaction. "BASIC outdoor skills?? Tenderfoot to 1st Class?!? Wait a minute, I made 1st Class when we still had skill awards!"  I don't need to be taught how to pitch a tent or build a fire, but I have to keep in mind that a lot of new things have come along since I was last involved in Scouting.

Learning is good. You can ALWAYS learn something new. Interacting with other leaders is good. I just wondered if taking a weekend for that was the best use of my time. I'll probably do it.

Edited May 13, 2015 by mgood777

[Eagledad]

You have no idea how valuable you are good. The original Woodbadge course was designed to teach SMs better teaching techniques, not scout skills. But as the course started accepting low experienced scouters, the WB staffs forgot the original objective. As a result, the course was doing negative training in the later years before it scrapped the course in 2000 for the course we have now.

 

The problem the BSA is facing now is how to bring the present generation of adult leaders up to a working speed for helping boys developing character through an outdoor program. At issue is about 75 % of new scouters today were not boy scouts as a youth. WB today is not designed to teach adults the patrol method or experts in scout skills. It is designed to teach how to build working teams for managing scout units of all ages. But adults aren't comfortable with taking boys in the woods without better training.

 

I think the BSA Hasn't found yet how to get new adults up to operation status. The experienced scouter is becoming more and more valuable.

 

Barry

[Sentinel947]

You have no idea how valuable you are good. The original Woodbadge course was designed to teach SMs better teaching techniques, not scout skills. But as the course started accepting low experienced scouters, the WB staffs forgot the original objective. As a result, the course was doing negative training in the later years before it scrapped the course in 2000 for the course we have now.

 

The problem the BSA is facing now is how to bring the present generation of adult leaders up to a working speed for helping boys developing character through an outdoor program. At issue is about 75 % of new scouters today were not boy scouts as a youth. WB today is not designed to teach adults the patrol method or experts in scout skills. It is designed to teach how to build working teams for managing scout units of all ages. But adults aren't comfortable with taking boys in the woods without better training.

 

I think the BSA Hasn't found yet how to get new adults up to operation status. The experienced scouter is becoming more and more valuable.

 

Barry

Then perhaps those who teach Wood Badge/IOLs/ Scoutmaster Fundamentals need to build the patrol method into the course, make room for it, even if it's not "officially" part of the syllabus. 

[Gone]

LOL. I'm actually a little intimidated of the idea of being the SM. Something I've always thought I'd like to do when I grow up. (I'm 46 ) Dedicating the time to the job, being able to be there all the time would be difficult.

 

I have enjoyed all the training courses I've been to. Even if the material was mostly stuff I'd known for some time, I learned a LOT from discussions with other leaders about how THEY implement the material being taught. My post above was mostly a knee-jerk reaction. "BASIC outdoor skills?? Tenderfoot to 1st Class?!? Wait a minute, I made 1st Class when we still had skill awards!"  I don't need to be taught how to pitch a tent or build a fire, but I have to keep in mind that a lot of new things have come along since I was last involved in Scouting.

Learning is good. You can ALWAYS learn something new. Interacting with other leaders is good. I just wondered if taking a weekend for that was the best use of my time. I'll probably do it.

Don't be intimidated. You likely know more than most. Pass that on through the patrol method and boy-led process.