How Do We Make Uniforming A Viable Method?

TAHAWK · May 10, 2015

I eschew the military terminolgy for BSA uniforms. I understand that for many it allows them to generate a internal understanding of how they define different uniform options. I am if the school that scouts is NOT paramilitary and we should avoid interjecting military terms where it increases the perception that scouts should be run like the military. The entire concept of boy-led runs counter to the chain of command rank structure of the military. The uniform is whatever the patrol decides it is, not the SPL or SM or troop committee.

That would be new. You would find no authority, present or historic, to support such a policy. I can find no support for patrol neckerchiefs, and patrol neckers seem logical to me.

The "Class A' etc stuff came in after WWII when so many adults in Scouting had been in the military. It then became "traditional."

Do Scouts even know that it's military terminology? I'll suspect more did when there was "universal" military service/

blw2 · May 10, 2015

I eschew the military terminolgy for BSA uniforms. I understand that for many it allows them to generate a internal understanding of how they define different uniform options. I am if the school that scouts is NOT paramilitary and we should avoid interjecting military terms where it increases the perception that scouts should be run like the military. The entire concept of boy-led runs counter to the chain of command rank structure of the military. The uniform is whatever the patrol decides it is, not the SPL or SM or troop committee.

I agree with this personally....

& I struggle with the concept of letting the boys define what a uniform is (except for the earlier discussion of a national survey at the boy level to design a better more applicable uniform for the whole)

My logic is this.....

if it's ok to let the troop decide that they have class B, class C, or class J uniforms.... and letting them define what those mean.... and calling them scout uniforms

How is that any different than the scouts coming together and stating that they hereby change some element of the scout law so that it is more applicable to them?

Don't get me wrong.... I respect that they strive for patrol or troop uniformity..... but how do you draw the line?

Edit: I just wanted to add, I don't mean this post to be argumentative in any way to badwolf or any troops' approach. Just a comment based on my observations and struggles with this whole topic of uniforming.

Edited May 10, 2015 by blw2

blw2 · May 10, 2015

My 2 cents if they were ever to read this for input into the adult and cub uniforms....

it would be a uniform shirt, button down but cut so as to look good while NOT tucked..... sort of like a bowling shirt or a beach/Hawaiian shirt (without the funky patterns of course!)

It would eliminate all pins for name tags, service stars, etc.... in favor for something that wouldn't catch on jackets or backpack straps... sewn on, velcro, or???

Otherwise, I really don't have many problems with the current uniforms personally....

Gone · May 10, 2015

I eschew the military terminolgy for BSA uniforms. I understand that for many it allows them to generate a internal understanding of how they define different uniform options. I am if the school that scouts is NOT paramilitary and we should avoid interjecting military terms where it increases the perception that scouts should be run like the military. The entire concept of boy-led runs counter to the chain of command rank structure of the military. The uniform is whatever the patrol decides it is, not the SPL or SM or troop committee.

So, following that we should eliminate the follow from the Scout jargon: Reveille (and all bugle calls), KP, mess hall, cantine (aka trading post), QM, patrol, troop, parade ground, assembly, muster, etc.?

The entire concept of scouting was based off of the military by LBP. We can still use the terms and avoid being run like a paramilitary unit.

DuctTape · May 10, 2015

So, following that we should eliminate the follow from the Scout jargon: Reveille (and all bugle calls), KP, mess hall, cantine (aka trading post), QM, patrol, troop, parade ground, assembly, muster, etc.?

The entire concept of scouting was based off of the military by LBP. We can still use the terms and avoid being run like a paramilitary unit.

No. I said avoid interjecting. There is no need to use the terms class a, b, c. I agree we must avoid being run like a paramilitary unit, so why use military terms which are unecessary.

DuctTape · May 10, 2015

I agree with this personally....

& I struggle with the concept of letting the boys define what a uniform is (except for the earlier discussion of a national survey at the boy level to design a better more applicable uniform for the whole)

My logic is this.....

if it's ok to let the troop decide that they have class B, class C, or class J uniforms.... and letting them define what those mean.... and calling them scout uniforms

How is that any different than the scouts coming together and stating that they hereby change some element of the scout law so that it is more applicable to them?

Don't get me wrong.... I respect that they strive for patrol or troop uniformity..... but how do you draw the line?

Edit: I just wanted to add, I don't mean this post to be argumentative in any way to badwolf or any troops' approach. Just a comment based on my observations and struggles with this whole topic of uniforming.

The main difference I see, is that bsa does not well define the uniform. It allows for different uniforms. This is not the case for the oath or law. That is a fundamental distinction.

TAHAWK · May 10, 2015

The main difference I see, is that bsa does not well define the uniform. It allows for different uniforms. This is not the case for the oath or law. That is a fundamental distinction.

"The Boy Scout uniform" (formerly the "Field Uniform") consisting of a selection of one of several BSA-branded shirts (or a coat), one of several BSA-branded trousers or shorts, one of several styles of BSA-branded socks, and one of several BSA-branded belts. Headgear, footwear, and neckerchiefs optional. That's a clear definition, just not consistent with the U.S. military's definition of a given set of clothing, including footwear, selected by a commander at a defined level. So to BSA, a 1910 uniform is "the Boy Scout Uniform," but osolete clothing is not acceptable not to the U.S. Army except in very special and limited circumstances at the Army's discretion, not the soldier's discretion.

Gone · May 10, 2015

No. I said avoid interjecting. There is no need to use the terms class a, b, c. I agree we must avoid being run like a paramilitary unit, so why use military terms which are unecessary.

So QM is okay but Class B is somehow taboo?

I think there are bigger fish to fry.

DuctTape · May 10, 2015

So QM is okay but Class B is somehow taboo?

I think there are bigger fish to fry.

QM appears is the bsa literature. Class b does not.

I agree there are bigger fish to fry, which is why I am not on some mission to get people to stop using it. I am however not using it myself for the reason already stated.

DuctTape · May 10, 2015

"The Boy Scout uniform" (formerly the "Field Uniform") consisting of a selection of one of several BSA-branded shirts (or a coat), one of several BSA-branded trousers or shorts, one of several styles of BSA-branded socks, and one of several BSA-branded belts. Headgear, footwear, and neckerchiefs optional. That's a clear definition, just not consistent with the U.S. military's definition of a given set of clothing, including footwear, selected by a commander at a defined level. So to BSA, a 1910 uniform is "the Boy Scout Uniform," but osolete clothing is not acceptable not to the U.S. Army except in very special and limited circumstances at the Army's discretion, not the soldier's discretion.

Agreed. I was not as careful with my wording as I should have. I stand by my general statement however that the uniforming policy of bsa is fundamentally different than that of the us military.

Stosh · May 11, 2015

I think the term "scout" is military, too.

My boys go with: There is a scout uniform, everything else is not. When they are are summer camp they are in uniform except in the camp site and at the waterfront. If they want to run around the campsite in a pair of pink footie pajamas, it's okay. At the waterfront there is no standard for swimwear.

Even with that said, the boys tend to go with their camp t-shirts, etc, along with their swim suits and/or scout pants. They police themselves rather well.