How Do We Make Uniforming A Viable Method?

[perdidochas]

it might also mean their program is an entertainment program where the kids come, are entertained, and then come back when some adults have come up with something else that is entertaining.

 

Kinda like going to the movies.  If it entertains, I'll be there, otherwise, if one were to expect me to learn something, to develop character, or to get off my butt and help out, well then count me out.

 

"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics." - author unknown  

 

By the way, the Boy & Girls Club down the street from my house is know as the place where kids go after school while they wait for mom or dad to get off work.  It's a babysitting service for older kids.  The more families have both parents working needing babysitting service, the greater the program continues to grow.

 

Boys and Girl Club (and YMCA youth programs) are pretty much how you describe it--baybsitting for older kids. 

 

Another thing is 4-H is a federal youth program. It's operated by a group funded by the USDA.  The only reason it is less progressive than the Scouts is because it's primarily rural--i.e. it's membership is less progressive. 

http://www.4-h.org/grows/

[packsaddle]

I was in 4-H at the same time as scouts. I had a lot more fun and adventure with scouts. 4-H was great because I learned a lot about farming, etc.

I'm not sure what everyone means, anymore, by the term 'progressive'.

[TAHAWK]

Great idea about position insignia on epaulets. 

 

I don't see the current (post-Centennial) uniform to be bad.  The boys don't mind the pants at all (most wear them with Activity uniform).  They wear their field shirts with activity shirts underneath when we go on campout, and then strip down to activity shirt during the activities.  Some wear their uniform all weekend. 

 

BSA says there is "the uniform" and other clothing. 

 

Three different shirts.  Two different trousers.  Two different shorts (counting zip-offs).  Four different socks.  My old council has issued seventeen (17) different CSPs in the last five years.   Red lops and green loops.

 

One of the math-rich members can tell us how many possible combinations that makes    Is it 3x2x2x4x17x2 ?  

 

Then add all the obsolete garments - some from just the last four years -  that we are told are still "uniforms."

 

It's a brand, not a uniform.

[MattR]

.. The kids that participate have a very wide range of program opportunities to pursue.  Go to  your local county fair and you'll find 4-H kids in the livestock pens, horse shows, art, cooking, sewing, and performance art display areas.  They have programs in citizenship and leadership and are expanding into science, robotics, etc.  On top of that they operate camps for kids that pick up many of the same things that kids in scouts can do (archery, shooting, swimming, boating, climbing, etc.)  ...  It's a solid 100-year old program.

Is it fair to say 4H is similar to Boy Scout merit badges, only they do it right? Rather than discuss and describe how to raise chickens, raise chickens.

[walk in the woods]

Is it fair to say 4H is similar to Boy Scout merit badges, only they do it right? Rather than discuss and describe how to raise chickens, raise chickens.

Hard for me to say, but sure, why not.  As I understand it the projects start in the fall and are displayed the following summer.  FWIW, here are the rules for my local county fair, http://web.extension.illinois.edu/dkk/downloads/47740.pdf.  It's a long boring document but you can see they do have a wide variety of project options to choose from.  I see the 4-H has also now has Special Interest (SPIN) clubs.  There's a shooting sports version starting in my area for example.  Kind of sounds like Venturing.

 

But, back on topic, what does all this say about uniforming as a method?  LC asked how to make uniforming a viable method, maybe the question we should ask is if uniforming is a positive differentiator for Scouting?

[Stosh]

What is it that makes the USMC Dress Blues stand out?

 

What is it that makes the local police force recognizable?

 

What really is the purpose of the uniform?  Is it for the benefit of the wearer or the viewer?  Define that and one will at least have a start.

[Eagledad]

 

But, back on topic, what does all this say about uniforming as a method?  LC asked how to make uniforming a viable method, maybe the question we should ask is if uniforming is a positive differentiator for Scouting?

It sure was for me. We could measure a lot of growth from the uniform method. It is a great tool for developing maturity because it is so challenging for both the scouts and adults. Like any of the methods, you just have to know your goals and how to apply the tools toward those goals.

 

I really really don't believe the uniform is the make or break of a youth program.

 

Barry

[MattR]

I really really don't believe the uniform is the make or break of a youth program.

 

Barry

I agree. Maybe that's why I went off topic. The uniform could be improved but better training for adults would be more beneficial. But that's the other thread.

[Stosh]

 

I really really don't believe the uniform is the make or break of a youth program.

 

Barry

 

I guess that would be the case if the uniform was just for the wearer.

[desertrat77]

Stosh, I believe the uniform is for both the viewer and the wearer.

 

But...some differences re the LE/mil uniforms and the BSA's:

 

1.  LE and military must wear their uniform, regardless of whether they personally like it or not--the "reg" says so.

2.  The Marine dress blues are one of the best designed, distinctive uniforms ever...both Marines and the general public respond positively to it.

3.  Most people in the BSA are volunteers, and don't have to wear a uniform if they don't want to.

4.  For a variety of reasons--cost, appearance, etc.--many people do not like the scout uniform, and see no benefit in wearing it.

 

When National decides to field a uniform that people actually want to wear, the issue will be solved.   Until then, the uniform committee can keep on designing uniforms there in Dallas, in a vacuum, without pack/troop/crew/ship input, have a big rollout, and then wonder why people still wear just about anything under the sun other than a BSA uniform.

Edited May 8, 2015 by desertrat77

[LeCastor]

 When I need a little cheer-me-up I look at this Flikr set:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/11435930@N06/sets/72157601553715652/

 

Look at the camp staff and the other Scouts in uniform.  Everyone's on the same page.  No showing off of high-end gear or shame of having no name-brand stuff.  

[Stosh]

If LE doesn't want to wear the uniform why did they apply for the job?

 

If military doesn't want to wear the uniform why did they volunteer?

 

If the scouts don't want to wear the uniform why did they join?

 

It's not a big surprise after one signs the scouting application that one is expected to wear the uniform.

 

How many kids join the hockey team and then be totally blown away by the fact that they have to wear the uniform?

 

The reason for my longevity in the woods (60+ years) is the fact that I wear the uniform and bears, especially grizzlies respect that.

[LeCastor]

Sorry, what does "LE" mean? Law enforcement?

[Stosh]

My apologies, yes, the uniformed Law Enforcement personnel

[desertrat77]

Stosh, I agree, people won't join LE or the military if they don't like the uniform.

 

But uniforms change.  In my 30 years in the Air Force, the uniforms changed several times, and not always for the better.   Well, I'm not going to ask for a discharge because I don't like the fact that my sharp, traditional uniform was replaced by a ill-designed potato sack (our service dress uniform, circa 94).   I made the best of it, got it tailored, and wore it proudly.   But secretly biting my tongue, wondering what they could have possibly been thinking when they designed the darn thing.

 

But that still didn't stop my Airmen from griping about uniforms (dress or utility)--didn't fit well, not sturdy enough, stains too easily, too expensive, too heavy, too light, etc, etc., etc.   I framed it as best as I could for them:   it's a uniform, wear it, be proud of it, worry about something else.  

 

Good uniforms, they won't complain.   They'll complain about anything, including the steak/lobster at the chow hall on Sunday, but if the uniform is good, they wear it and don't say a word.   Opposite for crummy uniforms.   An unending stream of griping, unless it's nipped in the bud (heard, acknowledged, drop it, press on!).

 

Good question about what the scouts think when they sign up.   My hunch is they are joining for the outdoor stuff, and not really thinking the uniform angle through till they get to the scout store and say "what?"   Or the troop they sign up for doesn't have a strict uniform policy.

 

So, summing up my rambling here, I'll state that I'm 100 percent pro-uniform.   But I'm also 100 percent against crummy, expensive uniforms, particularly in a volunteer organization.  

 

Many folks like the BSA uniform, and just as many if not more are either ambivalent or can't stand it.