How Do We Make Uniforming A Viable Method?

[LeCastor]

When I was growing up in Atlanta and New Orleans, we all wore the ODL uniforms (knee socks, shorts, shirt, and hat) and didn't think anything about it.  My Scoutmaster and I were about the same size so I inherited his old long pants.  Didn't phase us to wear the uni.  Today in my Troop I see the shirt worn almost all the time except when camping. (I always wear my complete uni while camping).  The pants are another story.  I convinced our young PL that he should be the example and wear his uniform as completely as he can all the time.  Some of his Scouts come in complete uniform to meetings and outings.  Others wear the shirt and shiny basketball shorts.  

 

I can't tell if it's a cost thing or that the Scouts are ashamed of it in public....

[RememberSchiff]

Who says girl scout membership is growing? It's currently 2.8M and was at a peak of 3.8M in 2003. At least those are the numbers I found.

 

I don't like the patches and bling on the uniforms so I asked my scouts if they'd be willing to wear their uniform to school if there was some special reason. They don't mind the patches. They said the only problem would be dealing with the kids that have no idea what scouts is about. Many students think the BSA is a Christian youth military organization. The scouts don't mind wearing their uniform at meetings and are fine with them on campouts that aren't too cold or warm. They just don't like being put in the middle of the culture war. The only problem we see is getting the scouts to wear the green pants. It's usually a case of kids growing too much.

 

Not me, I said Boy & Girls, 4-H, and YMCA.

Why not just go with Boy and Girls club, 4-H, or church youth group, or YMCA program with a camping emphasis?  Then the kids can wear whatever they want.

 

"Might be a reason their youth memberships are larger than BSA and continue to grow."

Edited May 7, 2015 by RememberSchiff

[perdidochas]

how about something like the campco safari vest as an option, useful long after they age out

 

I think we'd have much better luck selling the uniform to teens than a safari vest.

[packsaddle]

I've been thinking about this question and it seems that the range of discussion is an indication of how much 'local option' is being applied to this subject. At some point we have to let each unit and each CO and supporting community decide for itself what works best. Most of the time, from my experience, there is no way to force the situation to be any way other than that.

[desertrat77]

Packsaddle, I think you are getting to the root of the matter....

 

It's true, each CO/community exercises the local option already.   Many folks have full uniforms in their closet, but for a variety of reasons, would rather wear blue jeans and the scout shirt.  Or something else.   It works for them.

 

I agree, there is no forcing the situation to be anything but local option.   If the BSA wants more folks to wear the uniform, National will have to dispense with their traditional strategies for designing and fielding a uniform.

 

Just as in sales, people will do things that benefit them.   The BSA uniform?   For many reasons (and we've listed plenty here and past threads), many see no benefit to wearing the full uniform.   Philosophy and the uniform guide aren't enough.   This isn't the military, so folks aren't going to receive an Article 15 or other punishment for not adhering to the "reg."  

 

Again, the key is reaching out to the unit level scouts and scouters.   They are the image of scouting in their community.

[MattR]

Not me, I said Boy & Girls, 4-H, and YMCA.

Doh! My bad. Sorry Schiff.

 

Which begs the question. If the BSA and GSUSA are both losing kids and they have a wide range of uniforms, and 4H is growing (barely) then what's the difference?

[TAHAWK]

A good first step would be, as suggested, to adopt a uniform selected by youth - the customers - rather than a committee of middle-agers..

 

And that would need to be an actual uniform - all the same appearance for all except as to size, rather than the current method of encouraging wearing of  assorted and often obviously dissimilar BSA-branded clothing. 

 

 

A nice refinement would be to drastically reduce the need to sew things on.  Position insignia, for example, could snap or zip onto epaulets. 

[mattman578]

I am a new leader just started last year. I went the scout store and purchased my uniform shirt and pants witch I had to then get hemmed and they it was expensive.  The real thing BSA needs to do is lower there prices!!!

 

   I tell my new scouts to get there uniforms on ebay or craigslist and to take there time I will not punish a scout for not wearing there uniform or being out of uniform I am dealing with cubs. 

 

   I always were the full uniform when I am at scout functions. Funny story the other day I was getting ready to leave for my den meeting with my son also we were both in full uniform and guess what there was a brush fire across the street.  I jump in to action call the fire department bang on my neighbors door and got out of the way when the fire department showed up. one of my neighbors asked me if I was working on my fire fighting badge and the cop that showed up asked me if I was working on my fire starting badge and if I needed him to sing off on it. 

[Eagledad]

Doh! My bad. Sorry Schiff.

 

Which begs the question. If the BSA and GSUSA are both losing kids and they have a wide range of uniforms, and 4H is growing (barely) then what's the difference?

Both the BSA and GSUSA are going (actually GSUSA has been there a long time) progressive and 4H is not.

 

Barry

[Stosh]

Not me, I said Boy & Girls, 4-H, and YMCA.

 

"Might be a reason their youth memberships are larger than BSA and continue to grow."

 

it might also mean their program is an entertainment program where the kids come, are entertained, and then come back when some adults have come up with something else that is entertaining.

 

Kinda like going to the movies.  If it entertains, I'll be there, otherwise, if one were to expect me to learn something, to develop character, or to get off my butt and help out, well then count me out.

 

"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics." - author unknown  

 

By the way, the Boy & Girls Club down the street from my house is know as the place where kids go after school while they wait for mom or dad to get off work.  It's a babysitting service for older kids.  The more families have both parents working needing babysitting service, the greater the program continues to grow.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Stosh

[packsaddle]

Mark Twain is who has been reputed to have said that.

[Stosh]

Mark Twain is who has been reputed to have said that.

 

Mark Twain said he was quoting Benjamin Disraeli, the British Prime Minister at the time.  However, no evidence of that in found in Disraeli's history.  So while Mark Twain gets the credit, he is not the originator of the phrase by his own admission.

[packsaddle]

OK, thanks.

[walk in the woods]

Both the BSA and GSUSA are going (actually GSUSA has been there a long time) progressive and 4H is not.

 

Barry

4-H certainly has some traditional values (Head, Heart, Hands, Health) but none of our membership restrictions.  I understand the program starts at 8-years old but there is a K-2 program that is separate from the main program.  But even with that, at least in our rural area, their draw is the program's relevancy.  I'm not involved in the program but do know a number of kids that are and I lost some potential scouts a few years back because the parents asked them to choose between 4-H and BSA.  The kids that participate have a very wide range of program opportunities to pursue.  Go to  your local county fair and you'll find 4-H kids in the livestock pens, horse shows, art, cooking, sewing, and performance art display areas.  They have programs in citizenship and leadership and are expanding into science, robotics, etc.  On top of that they operate camps for kids that pick up many of the same things that kids in scouts can do (archery, shooting, swimming, boating, climbing, etc.)  4-H creates a natural constituency for the FFA on the school side of the equation as the youth grow and seek other opportunities.  No uniforms, no pressure to advance, more personal development focused broad-based program, good people, fewer meetings, and the resources of the extension service don't hurt.  It's a solid 100-year old program.

[perdidochas]

A good first step would be, as suggested, to adopt a uniform selected by youth - the customers - rather than a committee of middle-agers..

 

And that would need to be an actual uniform - all the same appearance for all except as to size, rather than the current method of encouraging wearing of  assorted and often obviously dissimilar BSA-branded clothing. 

 

 

A nice refinement would be to drastically reduce the need to sew things on.  Position insignia, for example, could snap or zip onto epaulets. 

 

Great idea about position insignia on epaulets. 

 

I don't see the current (post-Centennial) uniform to be bad.  The boys don't mind the pants at all (most wear them with Activity uniform).  They wear their field shirts with activity shirts underneath when we go on campout, and then strip down to activity shirt during the activities.  Some wear their uniform all weekend.