How Do We Make Boy-Led Understood By Adults?

[Stosh]

@@Stosh, our COR supports us 100% and has for 30 years.

 

I have no idea what a UC or DE look like because they have never visited us and only send me email requests for information THEY need from me, so no worries there.

 

That's what caught me off guard.  I had met the new DE a week prior, the UC I had never met in my life which was surprising because he was new to scouting too and the COR was too hands off to know what was going on.  Never underestimate the perfect storm when a parent goes on the warpath.  Obviously as lame an excuse as "too much leadership expected of the boys" would never have gotten any traction with educated boy-led, patrol-method scouters.

[TAHAWK]

As the leaders (scouts) are do do all the direct leading of the patrols and the troop, what quantity would be "too much"?  Were they trying to lead the Troop Committee?

[Stosh]

As the leaders (scouts) are do do all the direct leading of the patrols and the troop, what quantity would be "too much"?  Were they trying to lead the Troop Committee?

 

The troop committee is responsible for supporting the boys in their efforts.  PL reports advancement to Advancement MC, QM submits proposal for expenditure on equipment treasurer champions their needs to the committee.  Scribe works closely with the treasurer concerning money coming in and PL's are given an accounting of the patrol's budget and whether or not fund raising might be necessary.  The committee seeks out opportunities for fund raising for the boys to consider.when the funds start getting low.

 

I believe that outside the actual program of the BSA programming, direct support between the committee and PL's is a good adult association method.  The SM handles the BSA programming part of the processes. 

 

If I expect my PL's to lead their patrols by taking care of their boys, I feel the same expectation is placed on the committee.  Take care of your boys.  CC has a smooth running operation in his committee and they have run out of things to do?  Then they start asking the PL's "What can I do to help?"  Isn't it important that the adults lead by example and how are the dynamics of leadership for adults any different than for the boys?  They aren't.

 

This support of the boys by the committee is the adult association method that gets bantered around.  Boys working hand-in-hand with supportive adults.  How is this a bad idea?  

[Gone]

Just to bump the OP about how to get adults to understand boy-led, one of our SPLs came up with a great idea: Parent Meeting. Planned and run by the PLs and SPL. Topic: When adults' help is needed.

 

Worked like a charm.

[scoutergipper]

Our CC invites the SPL and any PL's who want to attend to all Committee Meetings so they can get an update of what's going on from the Scout's perspective. 

[blw2]

One must also realize that when a boy "runs with it" it means he is going to do it the way and in the style he thinks works for him.  When it comes to leadership there is not just one way for everyone, just one way for each one.  My best TG was a quiet, sensitive young man that was excellent with the newbies.  They all thought he was great and wanted him to be their PL.  He smiled and turned them down but asked who would make the second best PL. and he would help him be a good PL.    By the way that scout held the rank of Eagle and was not a useless JASM, he was my TG  I believe he stayed in that position until he aged out.  That was the troop were I was asked to leave.  He did not go on in scouting after he aged out.  His adult application would have been rejected.

 

His best buddy was my other Eagle scout in that troop  he spent all his time training PL's and APL's in leadership before he aged out (He said his worst leadership training was NYLT, but liked what I taught instead.  Went on after aging out to a summer job as assistant director of high adventure in an out-of-council camp, got his SM training and WB, and is now in the US Air Force.  

 

Two totally opposite personalities yet two excellent leaders.

what is a TG?

[TAHAWK]

The troop committee is responsible for supporting the boys in their efforts.  PL reports advancement to Advancement MC, QM submits proposal for expenditure on equipment treasurer champions their needs to the committee.  Scribe works closely with the treasurer concerning money coming in and PL's are given an accounting of the patrol's budget and whether or not fund raising might be necessary.  The committee seeks out opportunities for fund raising for the boys to consider.when the funds start getting low.

 

I believe that outside the actual program of the BSA programming, direct support between the committee and PL's is a good adult association method.  The SM handles the BSA programming part of the processes. 

 

If I expect my PL's to lead their patrols by taking care of their boys, I feel the same expectation is placed on the committee.  Take care of your boys.  CC has a smooth running operation in his committee and they have run out of things to do?  Then they start asking the PL's "What can I do to help?"  Isn't it important that the adults lead by example and how are the dynamics of leadership for adults any different than for the boys?  They aren't.

 

This support of the boys by the committee is the adult association method that gets bantered around.  Boys working hand-in-hand with supportive adults.  How is this a bad idea?  

 

You mentioned "too much leading."  I was trying to understand what that would be, and you reply leaves the words undefined.  Maybe it's so obvious that I should understand.

[Gone]

what is a TG?

Troop Guide.

[blw2]

ah, troop guide.  Must admit that's a new one for me.

Thanks!

 

Just looked it up, seems like perhaps the most important position in the troop if you ask me.... based on the meritbadge.org post which was the first hit from google.

Edited May 10, 2015 by blw2

[Eagle94-A1]

TG IMHO is probably THE most important job in the troop that uses a New Scout Patrol (NSP) because his job is to get the Scouts up to speed and train the PL to do the job without. Essentially his job is wo work his way out of a job.

[mgood777]

2 X 4 - 4' long with the words "Board of Education" on it.  Give one to each PL and if an adult comes within range they are to use it liberally.  If the boys need help, they simply ask, THAT is what the adults are there for.

 

  We would have had entirely too much fun with this when I was a Scout.

 

 

 

A truly boy-led unit is a rather rare entity in the BSA.  The temptation is just too great for adults to get in there and fix thing and make them better. 

 

Sadly true. Give them as much responsibility as they can handle. Unfortunately most adult leaders don't really believe they can handle all that much and are unable to step back far enough to find out.

 

[Stosh]

what is a TG?

I'm sorry, Troop Guide (TG), the Position of Responsibility (POR) who generally works with the new scout patrol (NSP) to get them up and rolling.

[Stosh]

You mentioned "too much leading."  I was trying to understand what that would be, and you reply leaves the words undefined.  Maybe it's so obvious that I should understand.

 

One of the dynamics of the Green Bar Bill (GBB) training is that everyone in the patrol has a job to do.  I was working to help the boys find their niche of which position they would like to do.  I think the push back came from a couple of boys that didn't want to take any responsibility for anything, let alone take on and commit to something.  Well, when the parents addressed this issue to the COR it came out the SM was expecting too much leadership out of the boys.  So, as I was right in the middle of the GBB training, I was asked to leave.  I also knew there was peer pressure working against me as well in that the other boys were also not please with the slacker attitude of these boys and addressed it in no uncertain terms.  I do know those boys were no longer in the troop a month later because the others did step up and begin to lead, leaving them pretty much in the dust.

[Stosh]

@@mgood777

 

Sadly true. Give them as much responsibility as they can handle. Unfortunately most adult leaders don't really believe they can handle all that much and are unable to step back far enough to find out.
 

I don't know it it is the adults don't trust the boys, or they down trust their own teaching of the boys.  Either way, the message for the boys is this is your troop, BUT we don't trust you to run it right.

 

I have a personal yard stick I use in this situation.  I trust my boys 100% until they prove to me I shouldn't.  Doing it that way has produced very few disappointments over the years, and even then the boy always gets a second, or third, or however many he needs to succeed.  

 

I would say that after 40+ years of working with youth, 30+ in Scouting there might be a dozen out of hundreds of youth that I lost trust in.  In every case it was a blatant and malicious act of rebellion on their part and it was usually their way of saying they were done and were quitting.  It would have been a lot easier just to say I quit, but that wasn't always good enough.

[TAHAWK]

Some people seem to need to leave in an explosion.