Lgbt Group Will Pay Bsa $50,000 To Lift Ban On Gay Adult Leaders

[Eagledad]

Well if your use of "go and sin no more" is not based on your interpretation of the meaning of the phrase, then it makes no sense for you to use it to answer tyke's question.. Basically everything in the Bible is based on someone's interpretation of it.. 

It wasn't an answer to Tykes question, it was a completion of the of the scripture he was using for an example. My quote (without any interpretation) only provided the scripture as a whole. The real shame is that you used your misinterpretation of my quote as well as your own interpretation to disparage those who use the bible as guidance in this moral issue. As I asked before, are you capable of holding an opinion without denigrating those you disagree? Can one be respectful and still disagree? 

 

Barry

[DuctTape]

You mean, like when Peter wrote this in his first epistle?

"... our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,…"

 

It seems like the Saints don't give us much room to favor one over the other.

As with all things biblical and historical, one should not use a single line or event and ignore all the rest. I am not a biblical scholar, nor do I proclaim to have a monopoly on the knowledge of history of those times. I defer to those much more educated and learnned than myself and my statements are based upon what these scholars have written in their studies of the texts and history. Like I said, it requires questioning ones dogma, thus not everyone is willing.

[DuctTape]

http://www.amazon.com/St-Paul-versus-Peter-Missions/dp/0664255612

 

This professor knows more than I, for example.

[Stosh]

As others have mentioned, it is a result of Pauls teachings which were not always consistent withcthe teachings of James and Peter. Why Pauls theology became the "accepted truth" instead of that of the other apostles is mostly a result of Paul teaching to gentiles which grew his following much greater. Some believe Pauls teachings were the will of Gd, others believe Paul was no more than any other human with fall8vle interpretations at the time. Not all apostles agreed all the time, the fact one (and not an original 12) is elevated to a level above others (due to some believing his own vision) makes some question his authority.

 

As one who relies entirely on what is written in Scripture and not on the traditions created by humanity, I believe it boils down to how people view Scripture.  There are those who take it at face value, those who interpret it towards an agenda, and those who simply use it as some sort of guideline or strong suggestions, but not really totally mandatory.

 

Yes, there are a number of OT dietary laws that have been laid out as critical to the welfare of the individuals.  Let's go with pork.  It is known that pork harbors far more diseases than other grain fed animals.  So Instead of stating the meat should be cooked to 165 degrees, the scripture just says don't eat it at all.  Same for the meat/dietary cross contamination problems.  If one were to actually stop and review them, they aren't such bad suggestions for a less health aware people.

 

The world isn't all that good of a place to be and not everyone is on the same page, therefore there are going to be such things as slavery, homosexuality, etc, and as a result, maybe the Christians/Jews/Muslims don't participate in such activity maybe others do and will have an impact on one's moral convictions.  Kinda like "in the world", but not "part of the world" thinking.

 

Granted these influences will be there but we are called to take a more divine way in the world and avoid such activities.  Therefore if an organization or mission in the world is promoting homosexuality as "okay" then we are called to walk away and not participate in such activity.  It's not that we are going to force anyone to not be homosexual, it's just that one  has the choice of participating or not participating in activities of that nature.  

 

The homosexual community plays the game differently.  They don't just walk away from activities they don't agree with, they attack them.  That's where the real rub comes from.  Yes, the more extreme Christians do the same thing, but they are not supported by Scripture, it's just an interpreted tradition they have come up with on their own.

 

It is not my mission in life to convert anyone.  I can only preach the Good News so that the Spirit can do His work.  If I am unwelcomed anywhere, I merely knock the dust from my sandals and move on down the road.  If that ever becomes necessary with the BSA, I have already decided what I must do.  It's not a judgement I am passing on, No body has to do it my way, or else, It's not an issue that I'm going to lose any sleep over.  It's just the way life is.

 

I used to be an ASM in a adult-led, troop-method troop.

I used to be a SM in a boy-led, patrol-method troop that preferred the adult-led, troop-method approach.

I used to be a CA in a crew that had other adults that preferred to do it their way.

I used to be a minister in organized religion.

I used to be a lot of things, but there comes a time to clean up one's sandals......and move on down the road. 

[packsaddle]

Years ago my really good Jewish friend named his two boys 'Peter' and 'Paul'. Go figure. But they got along just fine together. 

[Stosh]

Years ago my really good Jewish friend named his two boys 'Peter' and 'Paul'. Go figure. But they got along just fine together. 

 

My kids are Sarah and Joshua, both good Jewish names.  

 

My third child Katherine... well the best I could come up with was Martin Luther's wife was Katherine, I like the name, sue me.  

[packsaddle]

 

 The homosexual community plays the game differently.  They don't just walk away from activities they don't agree with, they attack them.  

 

Stosh, I have had, and still have, many gay friends (as you probably suspect). Not a single one of them has attacked anything other than a plate full of food at our home once in a while. They, however, are quite ready to defend their right to be treated as full members of society, equals in all legal respects, and if the past restrictions on gay marriage are an example of activities they don't agree with then their organized opposition to such unfair (and, I think unconstitutional) laws is justified. But that does not constitute an attack on anything other than an unjust law which denies them the same rights as other citizens. 

 

Edit: mine are named after relatives. I suspect that one of them MIGHT like to sue me...naahh...better to just wait patiently for the estate, LOL.

Edited May 5, 2015 by packsaddle

[Twocubdad]

Gay Couple Files Complaint

With Winston-Salem Church

Over Failure to Marry

 

http://myfox8.com/2014/11/13/gay-couple-files-complaint-with-winston-salem-church-over-failure-to-marry/

[packsaddle]

That's an internal church problem. None of my business.

[Stosh]

Stosh, I have had, and still have, many gay friends (as you probably suspect). Not a single one of them has attacked anything other than a plate full of food at our home once in a while. They, however, are quite ready to defend their right to be treated as full members of society, equals in all legal respects, and if the past restrictions on gay marriage are an example of activities they don't agree with then their organized opposition to such unfair (and, I think unconstitutional) laws is justified. But that does not constitute an attack on anything other than an unjust law which denies them the same rights as other citizens. 

 

Edit: mine are named after relatives. I suspect that one of them MIGHT like to sue me...naahh...better to just wait patiently for the estate, LOL.

 

One of my roomates in college was homosexual (back in 1969), I have had homosexual parishionerss, friends and acquaintenances, and I have signed off on a homosexual to get his Eagle before BSA said it was okay.  

 

No one's going to pin a bigotry charge on me and get away with it.  I mind my own business and as long as others (any others) do the same, we're good.  Putting people out of business, and boycotting, and threatening, and protesting, and such force me to take a stand which I do.  I have done it against homosexuals and I have done it against other Christians.

 

I guess I don't tolerate intolerance very well..  I will speak out against intolerance regardless of who's side it appears I am on.

[packsaddle]

"I mind my own business and as long as others (any others) do the same, we're good."

And I agree completely. If only everyone could just do the same.

[moosetracker]

It wasn't an answer to Tykes question, it was a completion of the of the scripture he was using for an example. My quote (without any interpretation) only provided the scripture as a whole. The real shame is that you used your misinterpretation of my quote as well as your own interpretation to disparage those who use the bible as guidance in this moral issue. As I asked before, are you capable of holding an opinion without denigrating those you disagree? Can one be respectful and still disagree? 

 

Barry

The passage of Tykes you quoted had no scripture at all..

tyke, on 03 May 2015 - 5:39 PM, said:

I am still unsure what is 'unmoral' about being gay ? Yeah the old  'man should not lie with man like he does with women' bit is in the bible, but so is lots and lots and lots of other random passages from not being allowed to wear two types of fabric, women being teachers etc that don't relate to the modern world. I'm sure if Jesus would be around today he'd be hanging out with the gays, as he hung out with prostitutes  (and thats from an Atheist)

 

 

 There is no bible passage in that.. He makes no hint at any verse from John 8 verses 1 - 11.. He asks as simple straight forward question..  It would be like you son "Asking you "Dad, can I go to Sam's party tonight.. George, will be there".. (And your son knows you admire and respect George..). And your answer to your son's question is "Go, and sin no more John 8:11"     ...   "Ok, Dad.. What does that mean?"

 

You are lucky Moose that you believe in only the one scripture where you are saved through Jesus Christ. Good for you, it is a safe place.

 

 

OK Eagledad - What makes you think you are even close to my beliefs???   You accuse me of reading your answer to Tyke, and pulling from it a satisfactory answer which now you say was not an answer to Tyke at all (even though you quoted him before you wrote it), and it was a completion of the of the scripture he was using for an example (When he wasn't using any scripture and just asking a simple question) ..  Yet you seem to deem yourself capable to sum up the entirety of my religious beliefs to  being that of only one scripture, because I (like many other fellow Christians) have been taught that we all have sin, and that it is not my place (or anyones place but God himself) to judge other peoples sins.. And because I believe that religious groups with the same conviction, should be free to practice their faith and teach the youth in their  BSA units their beliefs and not be forced by your conservative religious groups into following your religious beliefs which go totally against own beliefs..

 

AZMike - You will have to point out the news article on the LGBT pressure group which is not affiliated with the Catholic Church, nor is it made up primarily of Catholics, which is pressuring bishops to accept same-sex marriage.  I returned to your original list and I don't see it listed.. Justice Alito, Cake shop, Cake Cottage, Fleur Cakes, A farm, A party place, Gortz Haus, a campground, Photography, Flower shop and an Inn...  This may be the reason I skipped over it.. It is not listed..  Anyway, I surfed the net with "LGBT group Catholic churches same-sex weddings"...  I got nothing you described, and the type of large protest you describe should have news articles from both sides of the issue..

 

I did find some bishops discussing being more welcoming to homosexual families (not weddings), and the Pope giving an LGBT group the VIP treatment etc.. All respectful discussions being had by all..

 

  

A prominent American Catholic gay rights group was given VIP treatment for the first time at an audience with Pope Francis on Wednesday, a move members saw as a sign of change in the Roman Catholic Church.

 

Last October, bishops from around the world meeting in Rome to debate questions concerning family issued an interim report calling for greater acceptance of gays in the Church.

 

That passage was watered down in the final version of the report after conservative bishops complained. A second and final meeting on family issues is scheduled for October.

 

DeBernardo said Catholic gay and lesbian couples and other non-traditional families should be invited to the meeting, known as a synod, to speak to the bishops about their faith and their sexuality. (Reporting by Philip Pullella; Editing by Tom Heneghan)

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

 

Certainly, there are gay couples that are suing in England to force churches to marry homosexual couples: http://www.essexchronicle.co.uk/Gay-dads-set-sue-church-sex-marriage-opt/story-19597954-detail/story.html

 

 

They're suing the officially established, government-ruled, tax-supported, 26 reserved seats in the House of Lords Church of England, where the monarch is the Supreme Governor.  You're damn right they're suing.

[AZMike]

The passage of Tykes you quoted had no scripture at all..

tyke, on 03 May 2015 - 5:39 PM, said:

 

 There is no bible passage in that.. He makes no hint at any verse from John 8 verses 1 - 11.. He asks as simple straight forward question..  It would be like you son "Asking you "Dad, can I go to Sam's party tonight.. George, will be there".. (And your son knows you admire and respect George..). And your answer to your son's question is "Go, and sin no more John 8:11"     ...   "Ok, Dad.. What does that mean?"

 

AZMike - You will have to point out the news article on the LGBT pressure group which is not affiliated with the Catholic Church, nor is it made up primarily of Catholics, which is pressuring bishops to accept same-sex marriage.  I returned to your original list and I don't see it listed.. Justice Alito, Cake shop, Cake Cottage, Fleur Cakes, A farm, A party place, Gortz Haus, a campground, Photography, Flower shop and an Inn...  This may be the reason I skipped over it.. It is not listed..  Anyway, I surfed the net with "LGBT group Catholic churches same-sex weddings"...  I got nothing you described, and the type of large protest you describe should have news articles from both sides of the issue..

 

From Post #54:

 

Certainly, the "Human Rights Campaign," a non-Catholic gay rights pressure and lobbying group, has prepared slick advertising materials to pressure Catholic bishops to accept gay marriage and end orthodox teaching on human sexuality. You can read their material here: http://www.hrc.org/f...f_the_Worst.pdf

 

I did find some bishops discussing being more welcoming to homosexual families (not weddings), and the Pope giving an LGBT group the VIP treatment etc.. All respectful discussions being had by all..

 

Which is the way it should be. Homosexuals should be treated with dignity and respect (and should afford others the same courtesy, which would include refraining from use of hatfeul terms like "Homophobe" or "bigot" against someone who expresses a difference of opinion, yes?)

 

We don't kick people out of the Catholic faith for being homosexual (or anything else, actually), so there is room for discussion without schism. But doctrine on the sinfulness of sexual relations outside of marriage isn't going to change, and marriage will continue to be between a man and a woman within the Catholic Church. 

Edited May 6, 2015 by AZMike

[moosetracker]

Ahhh-Ha... I found the piece about the LGBT PAMPLET... I looked again after Merlyn pulled something I did not see.. 

 

I see nothing in it about forcing Catholics to accept same-sex marriages.. I believe it is similar to basically what the Catholics and LGBT are cordially talking about currently, A GREATER ACCEPTANCE of GAYS IN THE CHURCH.. Outsiders may be working with Catholic homosexuals (I don't know from the pamphlet if it was created due to catholic homosexuals asking for the help of the HRC, or even who in the HRC put the pamphlet together, or who the pamphlet is for the Catholic Clergy or the LGBT community), but from what I read the meetings are pleasant and the only people who are talking with the Bishops and the Pope are Catholic homosexuals..  So far from what I see of this movement, if the Catholic church changes then it will still be Catholic LGBT church members talking to Catholic clergy... And since I don't see any "Force the Catholic Church to marry the Gays" in the pamphlet, I will read it as intended.. The Pope says "Who am I to judge".. But some of the Bishops are actively judging and condemning..

 

(AZ Mike - We crossed posts.)

Edited May 6, 2015 by moosetracker