2015 Guide To Advancement

[Gone]

I sit with a Scout one-on-one within eye and earshot of others.  That's still within the boundaries of YPT.

 

I still do two-deep. I don't want to depend on the fact that others are eavesdropping on my SMC in case something happens.

[perdidochas]

Who does SMCs one-on-one? Our SMCs are two-deep. If we did use remote SMCs we'd do it two-deep.

 

Our SMCs are in a room just off to the side of the main meeting room, with an open door.  They are in sight of everybody, just not in earshot. 

[TAHAWK]

And even before you get to that, how are these changes going to be EFFECTIVELY communicated to "the field"?  Is the average walking-around Scoutmaster or troop advancement chair even going to know that the BSA decided to come out with a new 2015 version of the G2A?   Does he/she even know that a new version came out in 2013?  Not counting people who actively participant in this or another online Scouting forum, how many Scouters in this country read Bryan's blog?  How many even know it exists?  I'm guessing it's a small percentage.  We in this forum know these things but I do not think we are representative of the average Scouter.

 

Very good point.  

 

It's on the Scouting blog and might be published in the magazine.  

 

I wonder if Roundtable Commissioners are being urged to feature the changes in their programs ?  (Sadly, the council-mandated reorganization of half of our council into a district was accompanied by throwing most all the incumbents under the proverbial bus, and we have had zero roundtable staff for three years.)

 

And who are the biggest offenders?  I suspect it's districts with merit badge "fairs" and councils with the same plus the never-sufficiently-denounced merit badge mill summer camps.  Problem with the last is most of the paid personnel know they are violating mandatory rules and do not care:  "Lot's of badges fills camp."

 

"Your actions speak so loud that I cannot hear what you are saying."

[fred johnson]

Are these definitions of "must" and "shall" stated somewhere? Or are these what we think they mean?

 

In law school they teach you "shall" means "is required to", but in other walks of life shall can connote something less direct. Just wondering if these are documented anywhere by the BSA.

 

Glad you ask.  BSA did a good job with this document.  Not perfect, but extremely good.  

 

BSA explicitly stated it in the GTA ... at the front ... on GTA page two ... aka pdf file page four ... before the table of contents.  ...  http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf    

 

BSA Guide To Advancement - Mandated Procedures and Recommended Practices

 

This publication clearly identifies mandated procedures with words such as “must†and “shall.†Where such language is used, no council, committee, district, unit, or individual has the authority to deviate from the procedures covered, without the written permission of the National Advancement Committee. Recommended best practices are offered using words like “should,†while other options and guidelines are indicated with terms such as “may†or “can.†Refer questions on these to your local district or council advancement chairs or staff advisors. They, in turn, may request interpretations and assistance from the National Advancement Committee.

 

BSA Guide To Advancement - Section 4.2.3.5 Unit Leader (Scoutmaster) Conferences

 

For this reason, the conferences should not be held in an online setting.

Edited April 24, 2015 by fred johnson

[Gone]

Glad you ask.  BSA did a good job with this document.  Not perfect, but extremely good.  

 

BSA explicitly stated it in the GTA ... at the front ... on GTA page two ... aka pdf file page four ... before the table of contents.  ...  http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf    

Thanks.

 

Sadly, the mix the meanings of the words throughout. Someone went to law school and some others didn't. No end to end continuity.

[fred johnson]

IMHO, many of these changes (merit badge, no online scoutmaster conferences, ...) are meant to get back to the fundamentals.  

 

Scouting is meant to be a

• face-to-face
• personalized experience
• outdoors and moving
• INTERACTIVE
• fun

Group school-like merit badges for the sake of earning the merit badge is not what scouting is about.  Advancement for the sake of advancement is wrong.  

 

Advancement exists as an incentive to and recognition of exploring new topics ... interacting with new people ... moving and doing ... stretching beyond their comfort zone.  

 

Anyway, that's why I like the changes.  

 

I've seen some group merit badges that I think were good.  Chess.  Finger printing.  Just as long as we don't lose the personal one-to-one experience.  

 

Sadly, I've also seen many group settings where my sons have left with a badge feeling like they've wasted the day.  

Edited April 24, 2015 by fred johnson

[fred johnson]

Thanks.

 

Sadly, the mix the meanings of the words throughout. Someone went to law school and some others didn't. No end to end continuity.

 

I just re-read a few pages.  The words seemed well chosen.  

 

Can you give examples where the words are chosen poorly ?

[Gone]

I just re-read a few pages.  The words seemed well chosen.  

 

Can you give examples where the words are chosen poorly ?

 

They use them interchangeably. 

[TAHAWK]

IMHO, many of these changes (merit badge, no online scoutmaster conferences, ...) are meant to get back to the fundamentals.  

 

Scouting is meant to be a

• face-to-face
• personalized experience
• outdoors and moving
• INTERACTIVE
• fun

Group school-like merit badges for the sake of earning the merit badge is not what scouting is about.  Advancement for the sake of advancement is wrong.  

 

Advancement exists as an incentive to and recognition of exploring new topics ... interacting with new people ... moving and doing ... stretching beyond their comfort zone.  

 

Anyway, that's why I like the changes.  

 

I've seen some group merit badges that I think were good.  Chess.  Finger printing.  Just as long as we don't lose the personal one-to-one experience.  

 

Sadly, I've also seen many group settings where my sons have left with a badge feeling like they've wasted the day.  

 

Yes !

 

But have you seen the blog discussion at Bryan's place where it is argued by several that "discuss," "describe," and "tell" may be satisfied by written reports?  Their argument goes that the ordinary English meaning of those words allows for communication in writing and that had BSA meant for communication to be only orally it would have said so.  

[TAHAWK]

When you are not watching.  

 

Until at least 2008, and possibly until 2011, the national guidelines for advancement said:

 

 

 

 Camp staff members who are qualified in the subject and are younger than age 18 may ASSIST the merit badge counselor with instruction. The merit badge counselor or instructor in a particular subject should be available to both individuals and groups. However, regardless of the class format, each Scout must be reviewed INDIVIDUALLY BY THE COUNSELOR to ensure completion of the badge’s requirements.

 

Somewhen, that language went away.

 

National now argues that this now allows "camp staff members" to simply assure the MBC that the requirements have been met, and the MBC can then sign, never having even seen the

candidate.

 

But here's a thought.

 

Consistent with BSA's [pattern of inconsistency, it also says today:

 

 

The same qualifications and rules for merit badge counselors apply to council summer camp merit badge programs. All merit badge counselors must be at least 18 years of age. Camp staff members under age 18 may assist with instruction but cannot serve in the role of the merit badge counselor.

 

I submit that when all personal contact with a candidate is by youth staff, then youth staff is impermissibly serving in the role of merit badge counselor as that role is described by BSA. For example according to BSA it is the counselor who is to “[e]ncourage self-evaluation and self-reflection, and establish an atmosphere that encourages the Scout to ask for help.† How can he or she do that if they never even see the candidate?

 

What do you think?

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

â€It is unacceptable to award badges on the basis of sitting in classrooms watching demonstrations, or remaining silent during discussions.†BSA 2015.

Edited May 1, 2015 by TAHAWK