Do We Really Need Eagle Required Merit Badges?

[Stosh]

Troop only means I'm interested in doing a MB for my son and his buddies.  Otherwise, I'm not interested.

[scoutldr]

It is a core function of your District Advancement Committee to maintain a list of qualified MBCs who are "experts" in the field either by vocation or avocation.  I am also of the belief that "troop only" MBC should not be allowed.  One of the "methods" is Adult Association, and that means, you don't get 10 merit badges from your best friend's mom.  Cold calling the MBC and setting up an appointment is part of the learning process.  When parents would call me, I would say, "have the scout call me back and we'll discuss it."

[Stosh]

I don't do MB's anymore.  I have found that:

 

1) doing them as a troop or patrol is a waste of time.  It is just an excuse to have adult led meetings .

 

2) more often than not parents set up the MB's as if the boy really isn't all that interested in the first place.

 

3) I have had more scouts some for one session and never come back than I have boys that finished the MB.

 

4) I have more important things to do than waste my time.

[Eagledad]

I'm perplexed by your comment Stosh, if the boys decide to do a troop MB, how is that adult run? 

 

Our PLCs rarely plan a troop MB course for a meeting. But they often use MB course books as a source to help them plan activities for the theme like First-aid, pioneering and cooking. A Scout could not pass all the MB or First Class requirements from the meetings because that is not the objective, but they could get a few out of the way if they want.

 

And many times scouts choose not to get signed off even though they completed a requirement during a troop meeting. Some are lazy, some just don't care because they aren't interested in that MB at that time. What I'm saying is that it would be unsusual for all the scouts to come back if they are given total independence to controlling their scout experience. It would not be a waste of your time if one scout completed all the requirements. In fact allowing the scouts the freedom to pick and choose when they wanted to complete their requirements would be indicative of a truly boy run program.

 

Barry

[perdidochas]

We ran into the 'troop only' thing as well. I can't understand why this situation is allowed to exist. Why bother to list MBCs to whom no one outside of specific troops have access? It makes no sense.

 

Well, while I am registered as a District MBC, while I was in the midst of fighting with our District Advancement committee's ever-changing methods of registering MBCs, I thought about registering Troop only as a protest (I'd always before registered District, although I've only counseled one boy out of our Troop).  That said, in general, I agree, there should be no "Troop only" MBCs. 

[Stosh]

I'm perplexed by your comment Stosh, if the boys decide to do a troop MB, how is that adult run? 

 

MB's are designed as individual advancement opportunities, not as patrol or troop activities.  I have participated in troops where these group advancements are common and the troop was definitely adult-led 100%.

 

Our PLCs rarely plan a troop MB course for a meeting. But they often use MB course books as a source to help them plan activities for the theme like First-aid, pioneering and cooking. A Scout could not pass all the MB or First Class requirements from the meetings because that is not the objective, but they could get a few out of the way if they want.

 

The boys can use MB books as resource material for any and all activities if they so choose, but without a MB counselor running the activity, who's the one passing the occasional requirements along the way?  Until BSA opens up MB counselor registration to < 18 years of age, I'm thinking adults run the MB program and the boys make use of it individually, not as a group.

 

And many times scouts choose not to get signed off even though they completed a requirement during a troop meeting. Some are lazy, some just don't care because they aren't interested in that MB at that time. What I'm saying is that it would be unsusual for all the scouts to come back if they are given total independence to controlling their scout experience. It would not be a waste of your time if one scout completed all the requirements. In fact allowing the scouts the freedom to pick and choose when they wanted to complete their requirements would be indicative of a truly boy run program.

 

Barry

 

The ability to pick and choose as a patrol is one thing to being boy-led, but to have scout meetings dedicated to MB learning and there are boys present who don't care or are too lazy, or whatever, does not bode well for patrol cohesiveness.  I don't have a problem with a patrol wanting to do a MB together as a group as long as they are all 100% on board with the effort.  I have seen cases where a group working for a common goal produces a higher level of training than sitting in a classroom absorbing information as an individual.

 

For a PLC to announce that tor the next 4 weeks the troop activity will be the XXX MB.  If I'm not interested, the best course of action for me is to stay home and play video games which sounds far better for me anyway.  If this be the case the PLC is doing a fantastic job of activity management for maximum effect, but is scoring a zero in leadership of the patrol method and scouting objectives of boy-led.  Dictatorial  Management and Servant Leadership even in a boy-led setting are two different animals.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Stosh

[Gone]

Troop only means I'm interested in doing a MB for my son and his buddies.  Otherwise, I'm not interested.

 

Or it could mean that the person does not have time to be an MBC for a wider audience, knowing that the demand his their unit will be enough to keep him busy all year. If you have a busy MBC it could be daunting to have 50+ kids reaching out to you for support. 

 

As a volunteer, I don't see anything wrong with someone picking and choosing the scope of their own involvement.

[Eagledad]

But Stosh, you never have a full buy in with all the scouts in the troop. It's rare to have a full buy in at the patrol level because boys of this age have different things going on in their lives. And you do have a PL that represents their patrol if a patrol wants to bail out. So that doesn't make it adult run, which is the reason you gave. In fact, if the adult poo poos the PLC's idea, isn't that adult run? 

 

As for MBs being an individual activity, sure. But the scout still has to contact and work with the counselor to show his understanding of the requirements. OR NOT. A scout just may want to participate because the activities are interesting and fun, but not get the badge. In fact, for boy run troops, that is usually what happens. The activities at the meeting is just a learning experience for the skills, it is not working the badge with the counselor. 

 

MBs are OK by me for meetings so long as there is growth in the experience. The problem comes when the scouts lean on MB themes because they are lazy and unimaginative to be creative and plan. That usually leads to boring meetings. I say that knowing our PLC never planned a meeting with the intention to earn MBs. But I wouldn't have any problem with it if they did. I'm a character and leadership guy, if the scouts are growing and having fun, all is good to me. 

 

Barry

[moosetracker]

I have always listed myself as MBC to anyone (not troop only).. Even with required MB's I got few outside of my troop asking me.. Now that I have been away from the troop for over 8 years, I get few at all as those in the troop no longer know me either..

 

Of course that could be location also, I live about half an hour outside of the very bottom half of my district.. Therefore to most any scout in my district I would be 1/2 hour or longer commute.. I know with my son, when looking at the list of MBC's outside the troop the city they lived in was an important factor for who to try to call 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc until he found one to work with him.. For his Physical fitness the guy was over an hour away and we met up with him every other week for the 3 months so that he could work with my son on improving his exercise regiment..  The drive was a killer for me, considering I would drive 45 minutes from work to pick up son to drive 1 hour to the MBC (passing close by my work and keep on going)..  Still met a lot of nice scouts & scouters as we usually met the man during when his troop met weekly..

[TAHAWK]

I get 90% of my MBC business from two troops - the one in which I am registered and one other that has added me to their "troop list."

 

I am not registered as a "troop only" MBC, but those on such lists dominate the market for MBC's in my 2.5 councils.  Few Scoutmasters understand what is supposed to be going on.

[Eagledad]

I get 90% of my MBC business from two troops - the one in which I am registered and one other that has added me to their "troop list."

 

I am not registered as a "troop only" MBC, but those on such lists dominate the market for MBC's in my 2.5 councils.  Few Scoutmasters understand what is supposed to be going on.

We had a discussion here a few years ago of someone proposing the idea that the MB part of the program become independent of the unit. I'm really growing on the idea.

 

Barry 

[Stosh]

I've always viewed the MB program as independent of the unit.  The counselors are independently registered.  They aren't boy-led,  It's not designed for the patrol method,  The counselors can serve any boy in the council if they wish....  How people could conclude the MB program as part of a troop program has always struck me as strange.

[Eagledad]

I've always viewed the MB program as independent of the unit.  The counselors are independently registered.  They aren't boy-led,  It's not designed for the patrol method,  The counselors can serve any boy in the council if they wish....  How people could conclude the MB program as part of a troop program has always struck me as strange.

The Scoutmaster signature requirement, TWICE! 

 

Barry

[Stosh]

I believe a SM signature is required on an Eagle project when he in fact has no need to participate in it at all, too.  The SM is invited to sit in on the EBOR as an observer.  The message being conveyed is this project is too important to have the troop approve it, evaluate it, and review it.  All you have to do is sign the paperwork.

 

I believe there's a place for SM signature on the advancement sheet, even though he doesn't have to participate in the process either.

 

SM's signatures are nothing more than an opportunity to let the SM know what's going on.  So the SM signature on a MB blue card is for notification purposes only.  As a SM I'm seriously convinced that $2 and my signature will get you a cup of coffee just about anywhere in town regardless of what the BSA paperwork has to say.

[Eagledad]

SM's signatures are nothing more than an opportunity to let the SM know what's going on.  So the SM signature on a MB blue card is for notification purposes only.

Notifications purposes only? And what if the SM refuses to sign for any reason?

 

It seems the program isn't so independent.

 

Hey, it was just a discussion of what ifs. We will note that you vote to maintain adult control. 

 

Barry