Leaders Without Kids In The Troop

[Stosh]

I do agree with that.. As long as both listen and respect each others views and where they want to take the troop, the mix is good.

 

Wouldn't that hold true for any two leaders regardless of whether they had kids or not?

[DuctTape]

Adult leaders can be good, or bad regardless of whether they have a boy in the troop. Having one's child in the troop or not is not a requirement nor a detriment to providing the opportunity for a quality scouting program.

[andysmom]

Wouldn't that hold true for any two leaders regardless of whether they had kids or not?

It absolutely does hold true for any leaders. 

 

I stated what I see in our troop are some issues.   We also have an adult leader who has never been married and have no children, he is one of our best leaders.  He is a committee member and is greatly respected by our leaders as well as the scouts. He takes the time to know the boys, he knows what they do outside the meetings, he talks TO them. Many of our committee members have scouts who have aged out and are on the committee because they truly believe in the scout program and see the benefits, they stay on because they mentor Eagle Scouts or just want to keep the troop strong.  I am not saying that ALL leaders who have no scouts in the program are problimatic, I am saying that SOME are.

 

The problem adults that we have (and that I have seen) use their position often times to boost their own egos.  Our troop is over 100 years old and many of our Eagle Scouts and their porjects have garnered quite a bit of publicity in our area.  I have heard one of our leaders tell new parents that he had a single conversation with a scout that "changed that scout's life".  We have a leader who isn't "good with email"  If he needs to know about anything going on he requires a phone call and doesn't understand why that is an issue.  We have leaders who don't think we need a troop website.  We proposed a troop twitter account and one committee member didn't know what twitter was.  I have seen a leader schedule Eagle Scout Board of Review the at the same time as a scout's High School graduation because they din't know what is going on outside their own life.  Some leaders who don't have son's in the program  don't agree with the new policies or priorities of BSA and they want to hold onto "their" idea of what scouting is, and they have been leaders for however many years, so they know.  The ONLY training our current CC has is youth protection and he was the SM 12 years ago!  I am more trained than he is (in my far shorter tenure as a leader) and he doesn't care.  There is another troop in our town that has had the same SM for 30 years.  They don't do district camporees because he doesn't like them, the scouts in his unit don't even know there are district camporees.  They do the same thing year after year because that is wat they have always done.   Again, I am not saying that all leaders without scouts in the program are like this, and I apologize if that is how my post came across, but sadly, I know some that are.

 

 

On another note, I am trying not to be insulted by this

 

"Let me tell you one thing, kids of Scouting age hide a lot of stuff from their parents that they don't get away with when dealing with people who don't think this kid is the greatest thing in the world."

 

Most of the time, at any troop event, no one would know which kid is mine.  He doesn't deal with my husband for any of his advancement requirements, my husband does not do his scoutmaster confrences, I do not sit on his boards of review.  Most of the time the only way you could connect him with us is because he rides with us to meetings.  I am counceling him on 1 merit badge and it has taken him far longer to complete than it has taken others because he has not done some requirements to my satisfaction, believe me, he is getting no easy ride.  Yep, he is pretty amazing, but so are all the boys in our troop.  He is certainly not the "best" scout and there are things he struggles with, just like every other scout in our troop.  He has more challenges than some other scouts in our troop because he has some special needs but he certainly does not "get away" with anything because he is our son.

[moosetracker]

Wouldn't that hold true for any two leaders regardless of whether they had kids or not?

 

True - I am just thinking that those with kids in the troop and those without kids in the troop looking at the troop from different perspectives.. I know even if the unit consists of all parents there can be disagreement.. We had some good knock-down drag-outs, between parents.. But, parents are looking for the best experience for their kids which could vary greatly, but it tends to be at micro level, while those without kids have the macro vision and are working to strengthen the unit as a whole..

[DuctTape]

Andysmom, many of those characteristics you describe of problem adults are true, or can be true of adults with boys in the program as well. Thus the issues with adults are not related to whether one has a boy in the troop or not.

[MattR]

My son aged out and I stayed. I enjoy it and am trying to get better at it. I still have fun, so I stay. We have some other adults that also stick around but don't do nearly as much as I do. Several have told me they will stick around as long as I do.

 

If someone was showing the level of passion for this that I have I'd ask them if they wanted to be SM, and I'd give it to them if they wanted it. I've asked lots of people if they want to be SM and it's surprising how quickly they say no. I also am constantly asking parents what they think is right. Whenever they mostly disagree with me I'll ask more questions to find out what I'm doing wrong. Usually, however, the response is "you do what you think is right and I'll back you," or "my son will listen to you before he listens to me, so please just do what you think is right." I've never felt such responsibility. I'm also all ears when new people with new ideas show up. We learn to respect each other.

 

So, I don't think it has anything to do with old guys are no good or new guys are better. I think it depends on the person.

[moosetracker]

Sometimes it's the new guys who need to sit back and figure out what they have and what they are trying to accomplish before they step in and try to change everything, so in those cases the new guys might be the "no good"..  But seriously it really is everyone needs to be open to ideas  the old guy who has been there for 25+ years and knows he will be there when years after all these "new guys" come and go and know what works and what does not, and the new guys (or 2 or 3 years in) who have heard from grumblings from his son(s) and maybe their patrol that they are tired of the same-ol' same-ol' and want to do something different to shake things up, or have seen other units do something differently and think it would be beneficial to try in their unit. In one troop we were in it was the old timer who kept on changing things up, sometimes for the better, most times not.. By the time all was said and done, he got kicked out of scouts due to all the extra hoops the scouts had to jump through to get Eagle, and the 'priviledged' group he made, where he did things with his favorites and excluded the other scouts from the activities.. Wouldn't listen as the parents and scouts started complaining until the Council had to step in..  So it isn't always the new guys with the new ideas, and the old guys who are sticks-in-the-mud..  But, it always falls apart when people forge ahead and do not listen to others.

[andysmom]

Andysmom, many of those characteristics you describe of problem adults are true, or can be true of adults with boys in the program as well. Thus the issues with adults are not related to whether one has a boy in the troop or not.

Very true, there are good leaders and there are not so good leaders whether or not they have boys in the troop. 

[pargolf44067]

It absolutely does hold true for any leaders. 

 

I stated what I see in our troop are some issues.   We also have an adult leader who has never been married and have no children, he is one of our best leaders.  He is a committee member and is greatly respected by our leaders as well as the scouts. He takes the time to know the boys, he knows what they do outside the meetings, he talks TO them. Many of our committee members have scouts who have aged out and are on the committee because they truly believe in the scout program and see the benefits, they stay on because they mentor Eagle Scouts or just want to keep the troop strong.  I am not saying that ALL leaders who have no scouts in the program are problimatic, I am saying that SOME are.

 

The problem adults that we have (and that I have seen) use their position often times to boost their own egos.  Our troop is over 100 years old and many of our Eagle Scouts and their porjects have garnered quite a bit of publicity in our area.  I have heard one of our leaders tell new parents that he had a single conversation with a scout that "changed that scout's life".  We have a leader who isn't "good with email"  If he needs to know about anything going on he requires a phone call and doesn't understand why that is an issue.  We have leaders who don't think we need a troop website.  We proposed a troop twitter account and one committee member didn't know what twitter was.  I have seen a leader schedule Eagle Scout Board of Review the at the same time as a scout's High School graduation because they din't know what is going on outside their own life.  Some leaders who don't have son's in the program  don't agree with the new policies or priorities of BSA and they want to hold onto "their" idea of what scouting is, and they have been leaders for however many years, so they know.  The ONLY training our current CC has is youth protection and he was the SM 12 years ago!  I am more trained than he is (in my far shorter tenure as a leader) and he doesn't care.  There is another troop in our town that has had the same SM for 30 years.  They don't do district camporees because he doesn't like them, the scouts in his unit don't even know there are district camporees.  They do the same thing year after year because that is wat they have always done.   Again, I am not saying that all leaders without scouts in the program are like this, and I apologize if that is how my post came across, but sadly, I know some that are.

 

andysmom,

 

I agree that there are some folks who have been around a long time and probably aren't doing anyone in the troop any good.  The troop my oldest son started out with was that way.  The leaders in the troop (most of them) had no sons in the troop, had been involved for years and years and did things completely wrong.  Think, testing boys at their BORs and failing them if they can't tie a certain knot.  When people brought up changing things, they would shut people down right away.  I don't even think most of them were trained.  We had a local troop that had a SM that refused to reach out to his feeder pack because he thought that they should come to his troop automatically.  I could go on with examples of leaders that are that way.  As I do this going forward, I keep those folks in my mind as someone I don't want to become.

 

As others have said, I have seen people with boys in the troop that aren't the best.  My successor in the current troop (that I am stepping back in for) no longer has the boys doing anything in patrols.  When I ask why, he has excuses (not enough boys, not enough leaders).  I worked on creating a troop website, he never updated it, nor had anybody update it.  He doesn't do a troop calendar and the campouts are planned a month or two before.  He is a really good guy and I appreciated him stepping up when I was ready to step down a couple of years ago, so I don't want to bash him.  However, he has boys in the troop and has been trained, so it does go both ways.

 

I appreciate all the feedback that everyone provided and it has provided some interesting comments!

[hiker67]

I believe there was a thread here a few years back about a troop that had a strict policy against leaders without children in the troop.  Scouts could not stay on when they turned 18.  Very sad.

[Stosh]

OR...!

 

The leaders do NOT see eye to eye on how to run a troop.

 

The first troop I was with was very frustrating.  The SM was iron fisted, adult-led, troop method.  Patrols were in name only.  SPL was designated by the SM, etc.  I was totally opposite.  But I kinda toned him down and he let me experiment with the patrol method.  Did this for 13 years until one summer camp experience.We went out to Wyoming for summer camp.  It ended up to be the SM's summer vacation with a bunch of boys tagging along.  Once we got out there he signed up all the older boys for high adventure, out of camp experience and left me with all the younger boys and no youth leadership.

 

I quit after that and got involved as SM of my own troop.

 

Needless to say, within 6 months the SM was removed from his position.

 

It wasn't ideal but we both had sons in the program back when we started together.  At the point where we went our separate ways, neither of us had sons in the program.

[mgood777]

No kids here.

 

On September 6, 1986, my 18th birthday, I had just gotten the meeting started with an opening when the Scoutmaster and CC called me over and said, "Goodwin, you know you're too old to be Senior Patrol Leader, right?" I told them I knew that and that's why we had elections scheduled right after the opening, to select my replacement. (It was such a youth-run operation that they didn't even know what we had planned from week to week. I'd been SPL for several years and was running the troop when this Scoutmaster took over. So he occupied the office and did paperwork while I had continued to run the troop ) Anyway, I was 18 and I asked "How old to you have to be to be an Assistant Scoutmaster?" (I already knew the answer, but I wanted to hear it from them.) They said "You're it." And I said "Well sign me up."

 

When I went off to college, I found a troop to work with there. When I moved to another city, I found another troop to work with there. I felt welcome at both places, but I knew that they knew that I'd come up through the program and just hadn't gotten out. If some adult with no kids suddenly decided he wanted to be a Scoutmaster or something, I can see where it would raise some eyebrows.

 

When I first joined Boy Scouts, the Scoutmaster had no boy in the program. He had a daughter a few years older than me and a son who was probably 5 years younger than me. He had a lot of Scouting experience, both as a youth and an adult and I don't think anyone questioned him. One of the best Scoutmasters I ever worked with. The guy who replaced him, the one who told me I was too old to be SPL, had two daughters, no sons. Both of these guys were Eagle Scouts.

 

Our main "rival" at camporees and such was another troop in our district led by a single man who had no kids in the troop. Mr. V had been Scoutmaster there since some of the parents of my friends were in his troop. And he held that position until he passed away when I was in college. Had to be at least 30 years.

 

I'm getting back into Scouting after a 20 year hiatus, but as a Unit Commissioner.

I'd like to be a Scoutmaster some day. I think I'd make a good one. I just don't have the time or enough predictability to my schedule to be the main guy there all the time.

Edited April 12, 2015 by mgood777

[Eagle94-A1]

When I first became an ASM at 18, it was no problem as I was in the troop I gre up in.

 

After a stint as a DE, I went ot work for national supply. I got involved with a unit as I am a Scouting addict.  It was interesting at first, but as the leadership got to know me, especially since I was a member of the CO, it got a lot better.

 

Second move with the wife's job and me with supply had the same result: interesting and some apprehension at first. But got better the longer I stayed.

 

3rd time around was extremely interesting as my church didn't have a troop, and I wanted to serve on the district level again instead of a troop. Feeling was that I was going to stay for a while, didn't want to get tied down to one particular CO since I had a son now. HAHAHAHA . I was there only 5 months as the Mom-in-law's health deteiorated even more since we moved closer to her.  So I was back in the district as a volunteer that I was a DE for.

 

Then I had no problems with folks trying to recruit me as a leader.

[SeattlePioneer]

Personally I started as an AS with a Troop in 1981.  I have no children.

 

 

I've served in many positions since then,  including SM and CM.  My present registered position is Chartered Organization Rep,  and I'm serving as Cub Scout Day Camp Program Director along with another person.

 

Why?  Well,  the Scout oath and Cub Scout Promise talk about HELPING OTHER PEOPLE. 

 

And it's an important social outlet for me.

 

I would expect that people scrutinize my motives,  and everyone seems pretty satisfied when they do so,  apparently.

[Sentinel947]

I'm the young ASM in the a troop I grew up in. Moving to a Troop I don't have a kid in would be hard. I feel like there's a stigma and fear around it that I don't want to subject myself to.