Cub Scout Day Camp Camp Director Training

[SeattlePioneer]

<<It's beyond me how a council allows a camp to proceed without properly trained staff. What other positions do they allow unqualified folks to fill? Range safety officer? Health officer? Program Director is more than den leader for a really big den. It's about knowing the national standard for CSDC and operating a safe camp. One of the primary standards is having the camp director and program director NCS certified.
>>

 

 

Well,  it's all very well rto REQUIRE volunteers to do stuff,  but what do you do if they don't do it?

 

 

As it happens,  my district had Program Director available to take the "required" training.

 

So what do you think happened  ---or ought to happen?

 

Cancel Cub Scout Day Camp? 

 

I invite speculation on that subject,  and I will reply with an update.  

[SSScout]

"The work is done by whoever shows up". 

 

SP:  You are right in wondering if  CSDC might be canceled, if a "trained", "experienced", "willing"  Scouter can't be found. 

 

Same with CSDC.  If the Council folks think the  people available can do the job, the "waiver" will appear  (see above about the unfortunate death of the incoming CSDCD) .  If the nascent CSDCD is available for the training, the funds for the training will be found.  

If the folks that WANT the camp to go  get together, the camp will find a way to go. 

We Quakers say that "way opens"  as things that should happen, do happen.   Have faith.   But keep on talking and asking (and offering?)

 

Good Scouting to you!

Edited April 21, 2015 by SSScout

[SeattlePioneer]

Heh, heh!

 

You are wise in the ways of Scouting, SSScout!

[Twocubdad]

Emergencies happen and there are contingencies to cover stuff. But two months out from camp, there are means to obtain a trained PD if the council is committed to providing the level of staffing required and promised.

 

How many of these options have been explored?

 

-- Offering to fly someone to camp school if a distant course is the only one that works.

-- Assign one of the council professionals with camp school training to serve, even if only in a consulting/supervisory basis. I bet several DEs have higher level training, which could cover CSDC if the SE has the cajones to make them do it.

-- Send a 21-y.o. Boy Scout camp staffer to camp school and reassign them to CSDC for a week.

-- Asking "retired" day camp staffers to take the job, even on a rotating basis. (I've filled in when the CD was sick and the PD was pulled away with a family emergency.) Certifications are good for five years.

-- Recruit a PD/CD from another district.

-- Pay someone to do it. I bet $500 for three days of training and a week of work would turn the heads of several newbie school teacher.

 

Yeah, some of these scenarios will result in a warm, camp school-certified body just hanging out at camp. But that's okay. Their job is to know policy and standards in case problems arise during camp and, frankly, to check the box that says we have someone here with the training and certification we're supposed to have. You have other volunteers who have been developing the program for months already.

 

And the truth is, if the appraisal team (or I think we're back to calling them the "inspection team" -- hard to keep up) shows up and you say, "we're really sorry, but our program director died this morning" they're not going to shut down the camp. Of course it will make their jobs a lot easier if you can then say, "but our DE is here and will be on site if we need him and our old camp director, who is still certified, will be here Thursday and Friday."

 

There are lots of creative solutions between "meh" and cancelling camp if the council is committed to following the standards.

[JoeBob]

It's beyond me how a council allows a camp to proceed without properly trained staff. What other positions do they allow unqualified folks to fill? Range safety officer?

Sorry - you hit a nerve.

Patently ridiculous is the notion that an archery range or BB range certification needs to be renewed every 2 years.

The bow and arrow has stopped evolving; repetitive training is less valuable than experience.

[SeattlePioneer]

Have VERY HIGH standards  ----then ignore them.

 

That's the BSA pattern I see all too often.

 

BSA is drowning in very complex administrative standards that are too tough for a volunteer run organization.

 

Yet it keeps getting worse and worse,  year by year.

[JoeBob]

I've only done Cub Scout Day Camp for 5 years.  And 4 of those years saw me glued to the archery range.  So I admit up front that I haven't been exposed to the bureaucratic underbelly of CSDC.

 

But it just doesn't seem to me that it can be that hard.

 

Specifically, what is the big deal that requires a Director's presence for 3 days at a national school?

What national hand-holding takes place 'in person' that can't be learned from a good workbook and a few online videos?

Edited April 25, 2015 by JoeBob

[SeattlePioneer]

<<Yeah, some of these scenarios will result in a warm, camp school-certified body just hanging out at camp. But that's okay. Their job is to know policy and standards in case problems arise during camp and, frankly, to check the box that says we have someone here with the training and certification we're supposed to have. You have other volunteers who have been developing the program for months already.>>

 

 

I suggest that the proper qualification for leading a day camp is Cub Scout BALOO.

 

BSA has a bad habit of having unrealistically high standards for activities ---and then ignoring them when they prove to be unrealistically onerous.

 

One of my frequent complaints about BSA these days are that they make burdensome demands for a lot of administrative details that aren't especially important or needed.  That's fin if you are paying a staff to do them,  and unreasonable when you are making unneeded demands on volunteers.

 

 

[Eagle94-A1]

Specifically, what is the big deal that requires a Director's presence for 3 days at a national school?

What national hand-holding takes place 'in person' that can't be learned from a good workbook and a few online videos?

 

In all honesty, it depends.

 

When I went to NCS, my camp was a dysfunctional one, despite having a CD for 20 years. While I had a lot fo expereince from summer camp staffing and assisting with day camps in the past, I learned a heck of a lot.

 

Yes I read the books etc, etc. Some of the books were common sense. BUT some of the stuff was down right complicated and legalistic. The staff helped with that stuff.

 

BUT the networking, exchanging of ideas, etc was the real benefit. Since I was the program director, I brought my rough draft of the program for camp for review and improvements. Again, my camp was dysfunctional, and I revamped it entirely.

[SeattlePioneer]

<<When I went to NCS, my camp was a dysfunctional one, despite having a CD for 20 years.>>

 

 

 

This suggests that the basic problem was poor choice of a Camp Director.

 

 

Yesterday my district had another scheduled Day Camp Staff Planning Meeting.   The only people who attended were myself and a Den Leader in my pack,  who are jointly doing the Program Director job.

 

We spent 2+ hours refining the program elements we expect to use,  and planning how to fill the holes we currently have in the program.  We dropped some things that we thought we could  do better with another activity (dropping proposed basket making for field sports,  for example.)

 

I'm e-mailing the DE and District Commissioner to keep them informed of leadership failures,  and to make them aware that my partner and I will NOT be filling in for absent leadership  ----we're already DOING that!

 

Deadlines to order t-shirts and such are coming up,  and I have no reason to believe anyone is going to do that.

 

Training for shooting sports is coming up ---and I'm not aware of anyone recruiting volunteers to take it.

 

And then there needed leadership for next year.  The current Camp Director is on their second year and should be replaced for next year.  That argues for having someone working for her THIS YEAR to start getting experience with the job.

 

 

What we have is a failing program  ---something I've been warning about for 16 months or so.  New district leadership is beginning to deal with that,  but effective leadership takes time to identify and gain experience.

 

My current aim is to define and limit what I do and to inform district leadership of what they can expect from us.  THEY will have to deal with other leadership and planning issues.  I don't want to be drawn into being responsible for other failing leadership.

Edited April 27, 2015 by SeattlePioneer

[Eagle94-A1]

<<When I went to NCS, my camp was a dysfunctional one, despite having a CD for 20 years.>>

 

 

 

This suggests that the basic problem was poor choice of a Camp Director. Yes. Problem was that she would ticked everyone off that worked with her, and nobody ever wanted the job as a result.  When I was the DE, I did find someone to take her CS RT commissioner duties, I thought that would help the day camp situation by having her focus on that. I was wrong.

 

 

Yesterday my district had another scheduled Day Camp Staff Planning Meeting.   The only people who attended were myself and a Den Leader in my pack,  who are jointly doing the Program Director job. I feel your pain. been there too.

 

We spent 2+ hours refining the program elements we expect to use,  and planning how to fill the holes we currently have in the program.  We dropped some things that we thought we could  do better with another activity (dropping proposed basket making for field sports,  for example.) Do you have any input from last year's Cubs attending day camp?  That would be a great source of program input.

 

I'm e-mailing the DE and District Commissioner to keep them informed of leadership failures,  and to make them aware that my partner and I will NOT be filling in for absent leadership  ----we're already DOING that!  They probably know that already. My DE and DC knew the situation I got into, and it was one of the reasons they recruited me for the PD job.

 

Deadlines to order t-shirts and such are coming up,  and I have no reason to believe anyone is going to do that.

 

Training for shooting sports is coming up ---and I'm not aware of anyone recruiting volunteers to take it.  I hope you get volunteers for that ASAP!  My camp is in the same situation as you to my knowledge. We don't even have the corrrect registartion forms out , and day camp is approx. 7 weeks away.

 

And then there needed leadership for next year.  The current Camp Director is on their second year and should be replaced for next year.  That argues for having someone working for her THIS YEAR to start getting experience with the job. You are so correct. the guy that replaced me only had rifle range expereince workign day camp, and he was overwhelmed, esp. since the CD didn't do squat. I had to come back as PD when he got bumped to CD. BUT the next person to be PD had 0 day camp expereince. There were some challenges last summer. I spent more time running ranges since I was qualified than I did with my Tiger.

 

 

What we have is a failing program  ---something I've been warning about for 16 months or so.  New district leadership is beginning to deal with that,  but effective leadership takes time to identify and gain experience. Hopefully your district leadership realizes that the district is more than the Boy Scout troops. That's my problem.

 

My current aim is to define and limit what I do and to inform district leadership of what they can expect from us.  THEY will have to deal with other leadership and planning issues.  I don't want to be drawn into being responsible for other failing leadership. Do the best you can and focus on day camp.. Remember, it takes time to turn things around. And make sure you get a successor who fully unerstands what is going on. My first successor as PD didn't, and set us back as a result.; Very frustrating, especially since unlike the CD, I gave him copies of EVERYTHING (emphasis) I did for 2 years. I essentially handed him a full program that the kids loved.

 

GOOD LUCK! (and that is me screaming at you with the nbest of intentions as I know the muck you are dealing with)

Edited April 27, 2015 by Eagle94-A1

[Twocubdad]

Sorry - you hit a nerve.

Patently ridiculous is the notion that an archery range or BB range certification needs to be renewed every 2 years.

The bow and arrow has stopped evolving; repetitive training is less valuable than experience.

I don't disagree with you on this one, JB. I find it a little silly that RSO is good for only two years but an RSO's ultimate supervisor, the Camp Director, is good for five years. Like you say, there's not much new in running a Cub Scout archery range, but the CD is responsible for a very fluid set of camp standards. Years ago I was a Water Safety Instructor for the Red Cross. Whenever I would teach a course, I would have the course information validated on the back of my certification card. Teaching a minimum number of courses would extend my certification. Up to a point, that seems like a more reasonable approach. (That point, however is that at eventually there IS enough new information that recertification is necessary.)

 

And you guys are missing the point. If running a unit activity do you not see the difference in planning and running an activity with only one leader versus starting the activity with appropriate two-deep leadership, but being knocked down to one leader due to unforeseen circumstances? Same with day camps. Planning a day camp which violates basic standards is different from dealing with an unexpected problem. We frequently have people come to camp school saying stuff like "my DE said because we're a small camp we don't have to have a program director." No, and your DE knows better. And now so do you. The question is what are you going to do about it?

 

Day camp isn't just a big den meeting. There's more to it than scale.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Twocubdad

[SSScout]

I haven't heard of a CSDC being outright canceled, but I do know  of a "inspection " team closing down the archery range on the day due to an uncertified Range person and poor, unsafe  design. Did not re-open for two days, until someone drafted another certified RSO and re-arranged the range (home, home on the).

[JoeBob]

 I find it a little silly that RSO is good for only two years but an RSO's ultimate supervisor, the Camp Director, is good for five years. Like you say, there's not much new in running a Cub Scout archery range, but the CD is responsible for a very fluid set of camp standards. 

NRA certifications for RSO/Instructor are continuously valid if you teach a course once every 2 years.  And those are real bullets.

 

Training for shooting sports is coming up ---and I'm not aware of anyone recruiting volunteers to take it.

 

 

I haven't heard of a CSDC being outright canceled, but I do know  of a "inspection " team closing down the archery range on the day due to an uncertified Range person and poor, unsafe  design. Did not re-open for two days, until someone drafted another certified RSO and re-arranged the range (home, home on the).

 

If I were a camp director, I'd worry about the shooting sports.  Feedback that I overheard from the boys was that they came to Day Camp for Archery and BBs; everything else was filler while they waited their turn.

[CubDaycampDirector]

I lost my old log in information (CCbyTrickery here), so hi again.  /waves


Some things I learned from doing Cub Scout Day camp (as both staff and Program director):
 

1.  Shooting sports and swimming are what the kids are there for.  

2.  You have to have volunteers.  The way we managed it was to require 1 adult for every 5 boys per pack.  If pack A sent 4 boys, they had to send 1 adult; if pack B sent 7 boys, they sent 2.   No parents, the pack can't register.  If the adults fail to show, the parents are called to pick up the boys, as there just isn't room in the other dens to add more scouts.    Also, hit the schools---some teachers may be willing to come and volunteer for a week, teaching their subject.  I had a high school science teacher and an elementary school art teacher step up, as well as a grandparent who came in to teach sign language as a rainy day program one afternoon.
We also grabbed as many Boy Scouts as we could---I had boys that were Webelos 2s in my summer camp dens come back to work as BS the next summer!    And we also got with the local high schools, and offered volunteer hours for any teen willing to come work.  I had 4 girls running the concession stand, 3 with office work and first aid, and several in dens as "den chiefs". 
 

3.  Plan ahead.  Plan for sunny days and rainy days.  Plan your classes and schedule ahead of time, and plan (and get supplies for) a couple extra sessions, in case one fails.  For example, we were going to make seed paper one day---until the volunteer that was blending the paper burnt out all 6 of the blenders.   Instead, we did skits and songs. 

4.  Do something nice for your support staff and volunteers.  The camp had always done a hot dog/hamburger BBQ for the volunteers after camp on Thursday, but it was poorly attended (volunteers only, no kids or spouses, so people were expected to leave and take their kids home, then come back.)  Instead, we did a thank you each day---one day chocolates, another mints/hard candies, um, water bottle flavor packets, things like that.  The last day, I gave out glass magnets that I made, with BSA pictures and the date on them.

5.   Volunteer training is important.  make sure everyone understands their roles, where things are, etc.  Our first day camp, as staffers, had the CD talking about himself for an hour, and we learned nothing.  Came in the first day to sheer chaos--there were kids playing by the lake unsupervised while the CD and PD were registering people (oh, don't do that either--stop registration at least two weeks in advance!).    

 

Edited April 27, 2015 by CubDaycampDirector