Boy Scout Brats

[qwazse]

... During Boy Scout years' date=' it can still happen. But when the poster said six years, that's making me think Cub Scouts. [/quote']

 

Facts not in evidence. SST also referenced 11-18 years of age ... and camporees etc ... I'm willing to wager that his is an accurate impression of what's going on in his neck of the woods.

 

Our troop has a couple of brats at the moment. Getting them to shore up the foul mouths, especially when playing a game, is a challenge. It also requires personal discipline on the part of the adults ... not always easy.

 

The brats also play soccer. Unlike real life, the ref will pull a card if he hears bad language. It's a controlled environment. That said, I've seen our non-scout athletes off the field and they are generally a courteous lot.

[Stosh]

Instead of discrediting the poster, why not stick with the thread. SSF said he was an Eagle, I assume that was Eagle Scout rather than coach of a sports team with an eagle mascot. [h=1]“Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.†- Socrates (470/469-399 B.C.)[/h] So the debate has been ongoing for about 2500 years now. Hows it working out for you?

 

Stosh

[Stosh]

Here you go. My favorite recipe. Translation is on you.

 

http://www.chefkoch.de/rezepte/1007371205853035/Gefuellte-Bratwuerste.html

 

How in the world are you going to jump up and down, scream and yell at the Packers when you have to hold on to a plate????

 

Stosh

[fred johnson]

Facts not in evidence. SST also referenced 11-18 years of age ... and camporees etc ... I'm willing to wager that his is an accurate impression of what's going on in his neck of the woods.

 

You're right. I read that originally but put it out of my mind. I guess that's right. He is talking the Boy Scout years.

 

We've had some bad behaving scouts in the past. And ... it was our mistake to not ask them to shape up or ship out earlier. And parents took the view that if any kid needed scouting the troubled kids did ... but at the same time ... their own kids would drop out. Thus lowering the maturity of the program.

 

It's a point well made by the original poster. And something we can all think about.

 

[Stosh]

Here you go. My favorite recipe. Translation is on you.

 

http://www.chefkoch.de/rezepte/1007371205853035/Gefuellte-Bratwuerste.html

 

ingredients

4 sausages, raw, rough

2 large onion (s)

1 tsp mustard (Dijon mustard)

50 ml cream or cream Fine for cooking

Salt and pepper

1 tsp butter

Grease the mold

preparation

 

Working time: about 15 minutes / degree of difficulty:. Simple / p calories. P .: not specified

Sausage from the pan so can everyone here is a variant that is different and also tastes delicious.

 

Peel the onions and dice. Sauté in butter glazed over medium heat, stir in the cream and mustard and let it boil something. Possibly season with salt and pepper.

 

Cut the sausages lengthwise, let all the ends and fold the resulting bags. Fill with the onion mass and put in a greased baking dish or ovenproof skillet.

 

At 200 ° C for about 20-25 min. bake. Anyone who wants can still set the roast to a sauce process (Cook the bind and season to taste). Serve with mashed potatoes just fine.

 

Stosh

[TAHAWK]

It's generally dangerous to generalize based on limited data. One ought to look at the specific group to see if it has a pattern of behavior.

 

One fine young HS athlete wrapped a half dozen twenty-penny nails under tape on his right forearm and clubbed me in the side of the head with this assemblage in an effort to get to our quarterback. What should I conclude about HS football players - or his team - from that incident? No Scout ever did that to me. What should I conclude about Scouts? Limited sample.

 

[MattR]

I was a scout brat, in the Transatlantic Council. I hung out with all the Army brats.

 

One size does not fit all, either good or bad. This is where bad things come from.

[packsaddle]

Thanks for the recipe, Mozart/Stosh.

[qwazse]

By the way, if someone like SST reports about a scout's behavior, I will try to get in a discussion with the boy (or venturing youth) or their parent within the week. ... Keep a little heat on the brats until they are well done.

[DuctTape]

I wont assume that the OPs observations are in error, nor will I assume that any observations can be extrapolated to the whole. I will however respond to the general idea of what about scouts who do not live up to the values espoused in the oath and law yet seem to be rewarded via advancement or other recognitions. It need not be all, many, or even a few, but if it is one how does this affect the greater good and what do we do about it. Often on this forum the values of scouting are touted via the mission. Issues surrounding advancement and scouts who may or may not have earned a mb, or completed a requirement, etc... Discussion about the faith, religion etc, sometimes get brought up mostly at the eagle bor level. However it seems that the most important requirements for membershipvand advancement are just "signed off". If a scout is not living up to the oath and law, if they are not growing in this regard, why are they signed off on the requirement of show scout spirit? It seems to me that if we are to be true to the mission of scouting, we should hold the show scout spirit requirement in very high regard for advancementvpurposes.

[perdidochas]

This is not a question. I'm just venting frustration over something which over my years as a Scout Leader seems to be commonplace across the boys in the BSA as a whole, so call it a rant if you will.

 

In addition to scouting, my sons have always been very actively involved in multiple sports throughout the year.

 

From what I have observed, the kids who are also involved in sports are far more well behaved, considerate and respectful than the Boy Scouts; it's not even a close comparison and I am referring to comparable age groups, 11-18 essentially.

I find the opposite to be true, when it comes to my Troop. That said, I also find the boys in my Troop to be far more well behaved, considerate and respectful than the boys in most other Troops. Any time I'm involved with other Troops, I am very happy for mine.

 

Within the leagues that we're involved with there is great emphasis on the coaches and the players treating others with great respect' date=' as adults. Often times the coaches will shake hands with the boys, even as young as 11 and 12, when they arrive for practice and again at the end of practices or games.[/quote']

 

We have the same expectation in our unit. We expect our Scouts to treat each other (and any adults, in Scouts or not) with respect.

 

The ultimate irony to me is that these athletes' date=' very few of whom are scouts (I would presume) have (on the whole) always demonstrated a much greater display of living the Scout Oath and Law then the actual boys who are Boy Scouts.[/quote']

 

Well, I've seen a freshman athlete talk back to his coaches during a game.

 

I realize I'm preaching against the choir' date=' but in my experience so many - too many - of these scouts are just complete and total brats...selfish, spoiled and often mean spirited with no sense of self-control or boundaries with regards to proper behavior (cursing and swearing, rampant racial jokes, hitting or grabbing others impulsively, etc.) and these are often high ranking scouts! Unfortunately during BORs there is rarely any accountability for their conduct outside of the BOR room. They answer the questions as they know they should and then get a rubber stamp of approval.[/quote']

No, you aren't preaching to the choir. You're preaching to someone that you haven't persuaded.

 

Granted my perceptions are largely colored by my experience within our troop but during summer camp and other district wide Camporees, Klondike, I have observed this to be common place across too many boys.

 

I am an Eagle myself and got my kids involved in scouts so that they too could have the same positive experience that I had, however, in hindsight if I knew six years ago what I know now...I would never have gotten my kids involved with the BSA; and if asked the question, I would be very hard pressed to actually recommend the BSA to any boy or family who was looking for an experience that would benefit him and help him to build character.

 

I do know that there are many scouts who do exemplify the Scout Oath and Law and who are genuinely exceptional individuals, however, they tend to be the exception rather than the rule; and that shouldn't be the case.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

What have you done to foster the values that you hold dear? If you're a Scout leader, and think so badly of your troop, why haven't you done something about it? Or if you have, what have you done?

 

I'll put my Scouts up against any group of kids. They aren't perfect, but most of them are living by the Scout Law. (admittedly, we've got a few that don't, but ironically, they are the ones into a lot of club sports.)

[perdidochas]

Good points, but remember everyone is fallible. It doesn't make any difference if that person is a sport coach or a Scoutmaster. A lot has to do with the combination of coaches, teachers, scouters and most importantly of all parents.

 

I think there might be a modicum of truth to the idea that people today don't spend as much time training courtesy, kindness, etc. as they have in the past.

 

So where does that leave us in Scouting? Maybe it's up to us to do the heavy lifting. I make it a major emphasis in my troop to err on the side of too courteous and at time my boys when they make a mistake apologize TOO MUCH. It kinda drives me crazy. I keep having to tell them we are here to learn and make mistakes and it's part of the process. I know you're sorry, but maybe tell me just once.

 

I even have boys who apologize for apologizing too much.

 

I have noticed that there tends to be an increasing level of narcissism among today's youth, so I emphasize the duty to others, helping others at all times, etc. kind of lessons in the troop.Tenderfoot Advancement #9. The Buddy System - taking care of someone other than just yourself. It's a lot more than just leaving camp and swimming in pairs.

 

Stosh

 

I agree with you. I think I talk to the boys more about courtesy and manners than I do almost any other single thing. We do have to do that heavy lifting, or at the least we need to reinforce it in our troops.

[perdidochas]

This really triggers many many thoughts. ... Another being cub scout meetings. Many times the parent leader are asked to step up with little or no experience and now run events every month with 40+ cub scouts. The meetings can get away from leaders and the young scouts take advantage and the parents sit in the background.

 

Just thousands of thoughts on this. I don't think the original posters statement is fair, but I can understand some of the experiences.

Now, Cub Scouts is a different thing. It's Lord of the Flies when adults aren't around. Thankfully, in BSA, we have the older boys civilizing the younger ones.

[Stosh]

I have a SMC with every new scout coming into the troop and spend at least 30 minutes going through leadership expectations. Technically they haven't registered yet so they aren't boy-led yet. They get the whole run down on respect, bullying, etc. quietly from me. Because of this I have very little problems with "brat" scouts and if I do, the situation is dealt with by other scouts policing themselves.

 

In all my years as a SM, I have used "Sign's Up" once. Normally I just wait for the boys to calm down when I stand to address them. Sign's up means, "I want to interrupt you interrupting me." Where's the lesson in respect in that? The one time I used it the boys were being a bit inattentive to an adult addressing the group at the PL's request. Of course I got instant quiet, and to this day, never had to even think about doing it again.

 

All my boys refer to each other as Mr. __________. That tradition is so strong that even after my boys turn 18 and I tell them they can now refer to me by my first name, no one ever does. As long as they refer to me as Mr. _________, I return the respect by continuing to address them with the Mr. title as well

 

Every boy knows that bullying is automatic grounds for removal of troop membership.

 

I am always surprised by the lack of problems I have in my troops. Most of my problems originate out of the parents who don't understand how boy-led, patrol-method works and definitely have no idea of what Servant Leadership is all about.

 

I have always known that if one treats a young person as an adult they will act more like one. One can either teach maturity, or wait around to see if someday it magically appears out of nowhere.

 

Oh, by the way, when I was a Webelos leader, I ran the den the same way. 6 boys started, 6 boys Eagled 9 years later, and they still refer to me as Mr. ______.

 

Stosh

[Eagle94-A1]

Someone asked how someone who does not live by the scout oath and law, yet advances affects others. In my experience is VERY negatively. The bullying, year-round soccer playing "scout" I mentioned previously is an example. As soon as my son heard that the scout was going to be appointed troop guide for my son's den when they crossed over, my son said he definately didn't want to join the troop since the troublemaker would be in charge of him.