Boys and Girls Clubs

[blw2]

flipped on the TV this morning. Whatever random channel it was on, there was one of those magazine type shows on doing a peace about some RC car outfit doing a thing with Boys and Girls club.

 

My first thought was the T-shirts. They could have been a cub scout pack or gs troop for all I could tell, before reading the words on the shirts!

 

Then it hit me, boys and girls! What I've always wished we had formally in Cub Scouts.....

 

I always had the idea that this Boys and Girls club was for underprivileged kids in poor areas, but these kids didn't strike me as underprivileged and it wasn't an activity poor kids could afford to do... I was thinking that much of the cub scout program, at least the old one, are centered around giving kids experience.... many of which seem to better apply to underprivileged kids (we're doing things that our kids being more affluent have already been exposed to many times....).

SO, my 3rd thought is a question ..... is the Boys and Girls club competition for scouts?

[RememberSchiff]

We are hardly in their league in terms of their greater numbers, access, and outreach. IMO 4-H and the Y are their competitors.

 

As you saw they are inclusive and as such they usually have easy access to public schools for their after school programs. After-school programs in the school is a BIG win for kids, parents, and Boy & Girls membership. They also have their own numerous community facilities like Y's but usually smaller. I have heard their program costs for kids are usually less than the Y, but the Y services the whole family better. I don't know if they own any camps though they do run summer outdoor programs.

 

They are also strong with community service, STEM programs, swimming, sports program...to paraphrase their "What we do:..

Education; Career Programs

Character; Leadership Program

Health; Life Skills

Arts Program

Sports, Fitness, and Recreation

Special Programs (related to youth and community needs)

 

Our membership numbers continue to decline while their numbers are increasing.

[blw2]

interesting!

well, we've tried the t-shirt thing, & that aint workin'...... so it must be something else.....

[DuctTape]

I havent been involved in cubs since the 70s. Is the comment above about after school programs w/ Y, and B&G club mean that cubs dont do their den meetings as after school programs anymore? Or was my experience an anomaly and they never really did?

[RememberSchiff]

My den meetings were at my house after school 4-4:45pm, weekly. Our school district denied my request to hold scout meetings after school at the school which are where the boys are. My esteemed colleague in 4-H had no problem getting permission. She often met more than one day a week at school. Her attendance bloomed, I was lucky to draw 6 Cubs.

 

[skeptic]

My den meetings were at my house after school 4-4:45pm, weekly. Our school district denied my request to hold scout meetings after school at the school which are where the boys are. My esteemed colleague in 4-H had no problem getting permission. She often met more than one day a week at school. Her attendance bloomed, I was lucky to draw 6 Cubs.

 

 

While it may not be worth the fight, schools MUST give equal access to facility use, including BSA. That issue hit the courts a number of years ago. But they put you in an awkward position when you challenge them and then they ban all groups equally. Of course, we also have administrators that make their own rules for "their" school; and they generally are not challenged, even when maybe it should be.

[PbW]

While it may not be worth the fight' date=' schools MUST give equal access to facility use, including BSA. That issue hit the courts a number of years ago. But they put you in an awkward position when you challenge them and then they ban all groups equally. Of course, we also have administrators that make their own rules for "their" school; and they generally are not challenged, even when maybe it should be.[/quote']

 

Does that (MUST give equal access to facilities) apply to organizations, like the BSA, that have discriminatory membership policies? I honestly don't know. I fairly sure the number of businesses that will support scouts had gone down since the kerfuffle over discriminatory membership regarding homosexuals was a major news story. I've heard some COs have dropped their units over it (mostly the hardcore evangelical ones). I'd not be surprised if public schools were under some policy to not give equal access to discriminatory groups.

 

In regards to the OP, I have some experience with B&G Clubs. In my city the B&G Club is used as after-school babysitting when both parents work. Given most households have all adults working in our rather blue-collar town it's common for these clubs to have a huge membership. My son went to a public school for 2nd grade and there would be over 100 kids in after care, and the city had five locations (it's almost 100,000 population with probably 15-20 elementary schools). As a Cubmaster that also works 8-5 I do not have the option of providing services from 3-6PM like these groups can. That never stopped me from picking my son up, grabbing our uniforms and a bite to eat, and heading to scouts. I'd try to work with them to see if you can recruit out of them instead of seeing them as competition.

 

I wanted to add... the school my son went to last year did have a cubscout pack until a few years ago. Disbanded when the leader's kid was getting his Eagle and he had long since checked out with no parents wanting to step up. The principal asked me to start a new unit but I had already committed to be Cubmaster of the pack attached to the troop I earned my Eagle with in 92.

[TAHAWK]

 

Does that (MUST give equal access to facilities) apply to organizations, like the BSA, that have discriminatory membership policies?

 

Yes, they must give access on a nondiscriminatory basis.

 

I'd not be surprised if public schools were under some policy to not give equal access to discriminatory groups.

 

Neither would I be surprised. Local governments often violate the law, such as by "legalizing" marijuana.

 

 

 

 

 

[RememberSchiff]

My understanding post 2002, if a public school no longer gives "open forum" access (excuse could be janitor and insurance costs) to outside groups then a public school can reject a BSA-affiliated group from using their school as there is no discrimination, all groups are excluded.

 

If a public school allows "open forum" access, it may charge the same fee to all outside groups but is in no way required to be a BSA CO.

 

And now the kicker, the public school maintains control over its educational program and has full control over which outsiders it invites, if any, to fulfill that program, e.g., 4-H for environmentally green studies, police for drug education; veterans for citizenship. This is not considered "open forum" and the school could selectively or totally reject BSA-affiliated groups from contributing to their program.

 

http://www2.ed.gov/policy/rights/guid/ocr/boyscouts.html

The Dear Colleague Letter at that link may have been helpful back in the day.

 

My $0.02

[beardad]

Our CO is the local boys and girls club. they charter the cubs, troop and now a crew.

[RememberSchiff]

Another difference, our celebrity spokespersons.

 

BSA - Mike Rowe

Boys & Girls Club - Denzel Washington

 

I like Mike but Mr. Washington has major league star power. .

[CalicoPenn]

Its called the Boy Scouts of America Equal Access Act which was passed as part of the No Child Left Behind Act on January 8, 2002. The Act states that no school receiving federal education funds can refuse to give equal access or fair opportunity to meet in a school which is an open forum or limited public form to any youth group listed in Title 36 as a national or patriotic organization. In addition to the BSA, this would apply to the Girl Scouts, Boys and Girls Clubs, Future Farmers of America, Little League Baseball, probably the Naval Sea Cadet Corps and the Big Brother/Big Sisters. Sorry Campfire, you're out of luck. It doesn't apply to adult organizations listed in Title 36 like American Legion.The interpretation has always centered around the words Equal Access and Fair Opportunity. If the school lets Little League pass out flyers, they have to let Cub Scouts pass out flyers. If the school lets Campfire meet at the building, they have to provide equal access to the Boy Scouts (yet ironically, the act wouldn't prevent a school from denying Campfire access even if the school was providing access to the Boy Scouts) and the access needs to be equal (or better) - if Campfire meets 2 hours a week, the Boy Scouts have to be allowed to meet at least 2 hours per week. If Campfire is charged $50 per week, the Boy Scouts can't be charged more than $50 per week - for the same facilities (there can be differential pricing if the facilities are different - if Campfire pays $50 per week for a classroom and the Boy Scouts are meeting in the gymnasium which might have a $100 per week fee, the Scouts don't get the gym at $50 per week just because Campfire gets a classroom at $50. But, the school can't charge another group less than the $100 per week charged to the Boy Scouts for use of the gym

 

There is one exception - affiliated groups. The provisions don't kick in if there are school sponsored clubs meeting after school - if the chess club, chemistry club, yearbook club are meeting at the school after hours, that doesn't mean the BSA or any other Title 36 youth group can demand equal access rights.

 

There is also a way for Schools to keep their federal funding while refusing the Boy Scouts and that is by closing the school building and grounds to every and any outside organization. The act doesn't requires schools to give access to the BSA - only equal access - and equal access to no one gets access that is not a school related club is no access.

[Sidney Porter]

 

There is one exception - affiliated groups. The provisions don't kick in if there are school sponsored clubs meeting after school - if the chess club, chemistry club, yearbook club are meeting at the school after hours, that doesn't mean the BSA or any other Title 36 youth group can demand equal access rights.

 

This might be an important part? A lot of the Boys and Girls culbs and YMCA programs are really intended as extended care after school programs. There is a contract between the school and organization. My son went to a before school program that was run by the YMCA at the school, it was a business agreement between the school and the YMCA. If we had complaints about the staff our first contact would have been the principal of the school.

 

As far as 4-H. I don't know the structure of the organization but if they have something similar to a charter organization the school might be able to be the charter organization for them but not for scouts because of the discriminatory policies.