New WEBELOS/AOL Program - Which option are you doing?

[blw2]

So, I'm trying to gauge if current 1st year WEBELOS have made a decision as to which program you'll be running next year... the new one or the old one.

 

I'm CM, with my son in this den. I'm trying to advise my son's DL, but he's not taking it serious enough so far to look into it for himself so far. Seems like he's thinking to just take the lazy way out and just keep on with the old program. I'm thinking that MAYBE that's the best approach, BUT maybe its not???

 

I'm somewhat familiar with it, having attended a U of Scouting course on it, I've read most of what I can find online, and watched the orientation video.

 

a pro/con thing.....

On one hand, It seems like it would be better to do new IF a new boy joins... but that's an IF and not helpful to the existing boys in and of itself....

 

On the other, Even though this may not be the case, AOL is considered by most of the folks in our pack to be the "Highest Award in Cub Scouting". It strikes me that this "high" status is very much diminished with the new program..... being much easier to get & all.... Pretty much a given. So maybe better to let my son's den to be the last of the ones to get the BIG Arrow of Light....

 

and then there's the idea that the new program looks like it might promise to be more fun for the boys and easier for the leaders

 

BUT, it must surely must be more easy to just not even learn the new program & just keep on with it....

 

 

SO, I'm wonder what others are planning at this point. Most folks around here at round table etc. are reserving comment.... I get that, but which way are you leaning?

[Eagle94-A1]

BLW,

 

Of the four packs I'm familiar with ( mine, and three friends') all of them will continue to use the current program for the current 4th grade Webelos. Some of the reasons given are the following

 

1. Doesn't make sense for the boys and their parents to buy new books that tehy will only use for a few months

 

2. Doesn't make sense to have them redo some activities they already done because of the way the new requirements are written.

 

3. For 2 packs, they do not want to do anything that may disrupt their scheduled December Crossover date. And the new program looks like it will take a lot longer to earn AOL.

[blw2]

your #1 is actually the best answer I think I've heard yet! Can't believe I didn't think of that..... but we pay for the books through pack dues. Historically though, 2nd year webs pay less since they don't have new books and the don't on average earn as many awards and such in their short year.... regardless, this makes sense!

 

#2, I was just reading this AM that they have opened up a new option so that pins already earned can be sued towards the new program, so I'm guessing this point is no longer an issue.

 

#3, so it'll be harder to get AOL? I wasn't getting that.....

[Eagle94-A1]

Somewhere I read in the materials out, sorry I cannot find them at the moment, is that 4th graders can only work on the Webelos badge requirements. Once they finish 4th grade, or June 1st, THEN they can work on AOL requirements. Whereas now as soon as they finish Webelos badge, they can work on AOL. So if you cannot work on AOL until June 1st, and the pack doesn't really meet until September, then you are looking at a May Crossover.

 

We've found that the Webelos are chomping at the bit to be Boy Scouts in December. It also gives them, and I've found the parents, more time to get to know the troop and get them ready to go to summer camp.

 

I am hoping I misread that or misunderstood the materials it came from. I know BSA is pushing towards a year round Cub Scout program like Boy Scouts, but the majority of packs are inactive over the summer, and the few that do meet are not having formal meetings.

 

 

 

[Sidney Porter]

We are currently Web 2 (cross over in 2 weeks) everyone I have talked to is sticking with the the old program. Mainly because you have something to work on in the spring. One of the things that I like about the Web/AOL is that it doesn't feel like you are killing time after they obtained rank.

[blw2]

We are currently Web 2 (cross over in 2 weeks) everyone I have talked to is sticking with the the old program. Mainly because you have something to work on in the spring. One of the things that I like about the Web/AOL is that it doesn't feel like you are killing time after they obtained rank.

 

 

You're right, 2nd year WEBELOS does sort of seem like killing time as it is now....

 

This thread has me wondering now, in the new program, is the AOL "rank" planned out to take a full year to complete, or more targeted for 5-6 months completion for a Feb crossover like most units seem to do?

 

Honestly, I think the program would be better if they leaned back to how it used to be with older starting ages. Then even doing away with this silly half year thing too, really makes sense if you think about it..... It all seems a rush..... rush the boys in to cubs too early, then rush the boys into the troop so that can go to summer camp earlier. What would be wrong with letting the boys finish out a cub year.... then crossing the boys into the troop in the fall, so that they finish a school season in the troop before summer camp. Just follow the school year like the rest of the world??? Maybe they should just continue the rushing and pushing them along trend and do away with 2nd year WEBS and let the boys cross in the spring of their 5th grade year.....No matter, just rambling about stuff way out of my control.

 

But anyway, good point about the "sitting around killing time".

[Eagle94-A1]

It will take approximately 7 months to earn AOL in the new program. 1 "adventure" is 2 den meetings, a "Go See It," and a Pack Meeting. Hence 1 month.

 

Grant you every pack does things differently. In my neck of the woods, Round Ups are not finished until mid to late October. grant you at Webelos it doesn't affect ya as much, but Tigers and Wolves, most definitely. And December is a wash because of Christmas holidays. Now my pack and others tend not to meet on school is not in session, i.e. holidays and teacher workdays. While Holidays are unerstadnable, the work days tend to be the same day we meet, and it causes issues.

 

As for Cross Over in Spring of 5th grade, back my day, early to mid 1980s ( when Tigers was its own stand alone program), May was the traditional Crossover month. Webelos was only a year long, so you had to earn Webelos and AOL in a year. My problem with it was that it did not give new Boy Scouts and parents enough time to get them ready for summer camp. In my case I crossed over the week before Memorial Day, and had about 3 weeks to come up with the money to go to camp. I could not afford it. Also my mom really didn't know the troop's leadership and was uncomfortable with me going for that reason as well.

 

I personally like the 1.5 year format of Webelos of the current program. Give them time to get things done and have fun, but also give them time to get into the troop, get comfortable, and save up the money to go to summer camp.

[blw2]

It will take approximately 7 months to earn AOL in the new program. 1 "adventure" is 2 den meetings' date=' a "Go See It," and a Pack Meeting. Hence 1 month.[/quote']

With the relatively new "3rd option" that allows the use of pins earned this year under the old program as credit next year for the new program, do things change? I guess it will depend a lot on how extensive these adventure requirements are.... how many can be done at home, etc..

 

Grant you every pack does things differently. In my neck of the woods' date=' Round Ups are not finished until mid to late October. grant you at Webelos it doesn't affect ya as much, but Tigers and Wolves, most definitely. And December is a wash because of Christmas holidays. Now my pack and others tend not to meet on school is not in session, i.e. holidays and teacher workdays. While Holidays are unerstadnable, the work days tend to be the same day we meet, and it causes issues.[/quote']

We have historically pushed our round up efforts to be earlier, like late Sept, but I have often wondered if it was worth the effort to push council so hard..... Otherwise we do abouyt the same.

 

As for Cross Over in Spring of 5th grade, back my day, early to mid 1980s ( when Tigers was its own stand alone program), May was the traditional Crossover month. Webelos was only a year long, so you had to earn Webelos and AOL in a year. My problem with it was that it did not give new Boy Scouts and parents enough time to get them ready for summer camp. In my case I crossed over the week before Memorial Day, and had about 3 weeks to come up with the money to go to camp. I could not afford it. Also my mom really didn't know the troop's leadership and was uncomfortable with me going for that reason as well.

I personally like the 1.5 year format of Webelos of the current program. Give them time to get things done and have fun, but also give them time to get into the troop, get comfortable, and save up the money to go to summer camp.

 

I guess not in keeping with the ideas about retention, but what I was getting at was that the WEBELOS would finish out the year in either May, or mid summer.... then start with thge troop in the fall, just like other cubs start with their new dens in the fall. Basically they wouldn't necessarily be eligble for summer camp that first year. Personally I don't think tahts so wrong to give the boy a year to get to know the troop, let the parents become more comfortable with the troop leaders, and let the troop leaders get to know the boy and the parents, so they know what they are dealing with!

 

[Loomans]

Our pack is doing both programs. Current Webelos scouts will finish with the old program and plan to be finished mid-fall 2015. New fifth graders will be put in their own den and use the new AOL program.

 

Adding a den is a little more work but meets everyone's needs in the best way, we've decided. If only one or two new fifth grade scouts join, we may try to cross them over to the troop with the current Webelos. It all depends on the birthdays and the parents.

 

Question - has BSA committed to keeping the soon to be obsolete pins and belt loops in stock during the transition? I think our DL is planning to stock up on what he thinks he will need for his summer and fall program.

[Eagle94-A1]

One of the issues I've encountered is that summer camp is a "bonding time" that allows acceptance of the younger scouts more easily than if they didn't attend.

 

In my expereince, not only did the guys in my den who went to camp come back way ahead of me advancement wise, but more importantly were accepted by the rest of the troop. By not going through that experience, I had some challenges with my patrol and troop. I did quit. Thankfully I eventually found another troop to be in.

 

I've seen the same thing happen,especially in NSPs where folks are coming from different dens and/or packs. Campign together, but especially summer camp, get them together. We have scouts in one patrol now who did not go to summer camp, or camp much with the patrol, and they are still in the " new guy" phase despite being in the troop a year.

 

We have another Scout right now who has fun with the troop, but within his NSP he has issues. Part of the problem is that the NSP hasn't camped together yet and had some of the shared responsibility and working together yet. Last camp out we had to merge the 2 guys with another patrol. Would not be a good idea to put two new scouts by themselves in a campsite and expect them to be successful. But the camping will help with issues. Summer camp will be the defining factor.

[fred johnson]

... ' date=' AOL is considered by most of the folks in our pack to be the "Highest Award in Cub Scouting". ... [/quote']

 

Yeah, that's more pomp and building up a ceremony than anything else. AOL is important because the last Cub Scouting award and can be shown on the Boy Scout uniform. That's it. Any fairly active Cub Scout can earn Arrow Of Light and often earn it automatically. It' more reflecting a Cub Scout who stuck through to the end.

 

Any 5th grader who joins early in the 5th grade year can complete the AOL also without much hassle or without any special treatment.

[fred johnson]

Honestly' date=' I think the program would be better if they leaned back to how it used to be with older starting ages.[/quote']

I fully agree with this part. Families burn out on Cub Scouts way before Boy Scouts. Too many view scouting as a little kid thing.

 

IMHO, let the little kids kick a soccer ball around in kindergarten and 1st grade. When they grow up a bit and are ready for fire, knives, bb-guns, archery and camping, then they can try scouting.

 

Let boys start the scouting path in 2nd grade when they are a bit more mature.

[blw2]

In the early days, cubbies started at 9 years old... so 4th grade, or maybe 3rd.

[Eagle94-A1]

I know in August 1982, Tiger Cubs became a BSA program for 2nd graders. 3rd grade or 8 years old was when Cub Scout began. Wolf in 3rd, Bear in 4th, and Webelos in 5th.

 

That's why some religious programs have 1 religious award for Tiger and Wolves, and one for Bears and Webelos.

[NJCubScouter]

Everybody can feel free not to answer this question. I could, if I wanted to, go look up the answer myself. However, if anyone is so inclined, can someone give (or point me to) a brief description (hmm, where have I heard that recently, oh yes, in a thread under Advancement) of what the change to the Webelos program is? Or is a change to the entire Cub Scout program? I have seen bits and pieces about it in this forum, but have noticed an overall description of how the program is actually changing. Although my account-name may suggest otherwise, I have not been involved in Cub Scouting since my son crossed over more than 10 years ago, so I have not had any need to find these things out for myself.