Venting

[packsaddle]

I guess I must be unusual because while I accept that politicians seem to be a hotbed of deceptions, I don't necessarily think life is better as a result. And as much as I'd like to be able to 'wash my hands' of the lot of them, I nevertheless understand that it is important to monitor their antics if for no other reason than to try to avoid becoming part of their collateral damage.

[TAHAWK]

 

 

You are exactly right Stosh. I use to watch Fox, CNN and all the news networks and on top of that listen to talk radio. I would really get hot about the issues and even ran for a city council position in my town. Then I took WoodBadge! I made a vow on my way home that I wouldn't waste anymore energy on politics what so ever and have cut it ALL out together! Message Boards, FaceBook, TV or Radio. NO matter what we say, think or do it won't make a difference to these folks....they keep getting elected in!

 

 

Is this the lesson for the Scouts?

 

I have a slightly different insight.

 

In 1975, our City Council declared a "fiscal emergency." They cancelled curb-side trash pickups except for plastic bags (torn open by animals - MESS) , and put a 50% increase in the income tax on the ballot. It passed.

 

The following March, the prior year's books closed. Turns out the city had a significant surplus. No fiscal emergency.

 

That Fall, every incumbent on City Council and the Mayor were voted out. The tax increase was repealed and has not been reinstated last I looked (moved some years ago).

 

 

The Governor who got the income tax passed in Ohio in 1972 was voted out after one term - along with his party's previous majority in both houses of the Legislature - when they were caught cooking the books to justify the tax. Another "fiscal emergency - close the parks - don't cut the grass - layoffs - etc.) The tax is still there BUT it has never been increased - just reduced four times. The current Governor proposes its elimination.

 

(That taxin' Gov got elected in the first place after the previously invincible Republicans were caught in an influence-peddling scandal.)

[JasonG172]

Is this the lesson for the Scouts?

 

Nope....I have bigger fish to fry, ones that can make a difference

 

[TAHAWK]

As one goal of Scouting is to produce good,citizens who participate in our governance, having them develop an interest in the political process is a reasonably big deal - in a Scouting context.

[SeattlePioneer]

<>

 

Courage, or foolishness?

 

Was giving Richard Nixon a pass really worth electing Jimmy Carter and the other liberal excesses of the late 1970s?

 

This kind of thing is why simply doing "the right thing" isn't an adequate basis for making political decisions for big jurisdictions.

[skeptic]

This kind of thing is why simply doing "the right thing" isn't an adequate basis for making political decisions for big jurisdictions.

 

So, you genuinely believe this? If a majority of the populace truly think this, then we now know what the problem is. Politics SHOULD NOT BE above common courtesy or common sense. Just because some think so, does not make it okay. Then, I simply am an old guy that is expecting too much of my representatives, and possibly of the younger generations.

[Sentinel947]

I dunno, as part the younger generation myself, I'd rather see less of the Machiavellian games being played and more compromise. I vote, I pay attention to policy positions, but I don't love politics and I try not to get upset about what happens in it.

[wdfa89]

wdfa89' date=' you make a good point, I guess I was speaking a little too generically. I am really speaking of more recent years - say the past 100 years. And I am sure you can find examples of partisan bitterness in those years as well. But I am talking about an overall trend. I don't think it can be denied that the partisan/ideological divide today is much more serious, bitter and potentially dangerous, than it was in (say) the 1950's and 60's. I think there used to be more of a general sense that "we're all Americans," that doesn't exist as much today. Today I think there is more of a sense of "if you don't agree with me, you're not really an American." [/quote']

 

NJ, I knew what you meant and don't disagree with ya. I just try to take some solace in that no matter how bad it seems in this moment I think it has been worse and maybe there is hope. or not

[LeCastor]

<>

 

Courage, or foolishness?

 

Was giving Richard Nixon a pass really worth electing Jimmy Carter and the other liberal excesses of the late 1970s?

 

This kind of thing is why simply doing "the right thing" isn't an adequate basis for making political decisions for big jurisdictions.

 

 

I literally don't know how to respond to this statement but I feel like I need to say something. So I'll just say...WOW.

 

I was born in Plains, GA during the Carter Administration and was held by Jimmy Carter when I was a baby. His presidency is often thought of as "ineffective" by so many but he was/is a good, honest man. And I would prefer if my elected officials were honest and didn't treat people poorly. But I'm a bleeding liberal, obvi...

[NJCubScouter]

 

NJ, I knew what you meant and don't disagree with ya. I just try to take some solace in that no matter how bad it seems in this moment I think it has been worse and maybe there is hope. or not

 

Oh, there's always hope. Even when the shooting starts, there is hope that it will end sooner rather than later. And yesterday, I believe, the Congress showed that it actually can produce a result even when all hope seemed to be lost. (This is about the Homeland Security funding, and I realize some here might disagree that the right result was reached. I know I heard a lot of screaming about it from Mark Levin on the radio last night. Why I sometimes listen to someone who I disagree with about 95 percent of the time, I'm not sure. Well, part of it is that the other talk stations are worse, and on the FM dial, I can only listen to "More than a Feeling" and "Hotel California" and "Suite Judy Blue Eyes" so many thousands of times, you know?)

 

 

[packsaddle]

LeCastor, I've written before that in my lifetime I can remember two presidents who I think were honest almost to a fault but nevertheless were honorable persons. We kicked both of them out..Carter was one of them (Ford the other, although I also give Ike a pass - I was just too young for him to count so maybe it's my 'conscious' lifetime, lol). And I have to hand Bill Clinton some credit for working with a Republican Congress to balance the budget probably for the last time in my lifetime (the first of many disappointments of the Bush administration).

 

NJ....you could always turn off all that distraction and open a book.

[NJCubScouter]

NJ....you could always turn off all that distraction and open a book.

 

I suppose I could, but since the only time I ever listen to the radio is while I am driving to or from work, opening up a book would probably not be my best option.

[packsaddle]

Drive carefully! We'd hate to lose you.

[SeattlePioneer]

<<~~I was born in Plains, GA during the Carter Administration and was held by Jimmy Carter when I was a baby. His presidency is often thought of as "ineffective" by so many but he was/is a good, honest man. And I would prefer if my elected officials were honest and didn't treat people poorly. But I'm a bleeding liberal, obvi... >>

 

 

 

In 1954 the CIA undermined a Democratically elected government in iran that was committed to a radical political program.

 

Instead, we had a pro US Sha of Iran until 1978, when a political cleric threatened to overthrow the Shah and impose a theocracy on Iran.

 

Jimmy Carter took little action to support the Shah, and extended the hand of Friendship to the Ayatola Hjomeni, who promptly bit that hand, invaded the US Embassy and took diplomats hostage.

 

That began nearly forty years of mischief by a radicalized Iran.

 

 

 

Carter was a FOOL for failing to make every effort to keep a friend of the United States and of liberal western values in power.

 

As I noted earlier, the Sermon on the Mount is the last word in personal ethics, but it's not the basis upon which ministers of government are given their portfolios.

 

Politics is DIFFERENT than personal morality. If you don't understand that, you are naïve, in my opinion.

 

 

 

[packsaddle]

Shame on that cleric who, in spite of being widely unpopular and unacceptable to the Iranian people, nevertheless took power against the popular wishes of the vast majority of Iranians, nearly all of whom supported their autocratic Shah. Shame on the Ayatollah for turning what had been broad appreciation for the support the USA provided to prop up the Shah's regime - as our surrogate to guard and protect our access to Middle East oil. And shame on the Iranian people for failing to take advantage of all the freedoms our support for the Shah afforded them at all levels of society, the same freedoms we enjoy...of free, honest elections, freedom to speak out in criticism of those in power, freedoms of all sorts, shame on the Iranian population for ignoring the kindness and generosity of the Shah and his benevolent rule.

 

Edit: If only Carter had done what Jesus would have done and continued to provide massive aid to the Shah in the form of military arms and economic support. Clearly Jesus would have sided with the Shah because that would have been the moral high ground. I'm just not quite clear on which arms Jesus would have preferred, cluster bombs or lots of automatic weapons...it's a tough choice. Maybe some tanks and advanced fighter jets, yeah those would be the choice by Jesus..whatever it took to keep that oil flowing.