Venting

[Rick_in_CA]

 

Is this behavior a natural distillation of our democracy? Have the two parties been around just long enough to despise each other?

 

Or is this a result of modern electronic communication? In particular, the 24 hour news cycle of cable and the internet?

 

Being a pro-choice conservative is lonely. I yearn for an open-minded political affiliation.

 

There was an interesting article I read somewhere that thought a big part of it was an unintended consequence of Newt Gingrich's idea of having all the congressmen go home every weekend to fund raise. Before, the congressmen moved their families to DC, now they don't. It's tough to demonize your opponent when your kids go to the same school and play together, and your wives socialize with each other, and you go to the same parties. Now without the families in DC, we have lost one of the big reasons to speak to and get to know the people on the other side.

[SeattlePioneer]

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Politics is a VERY high stakes activity. Politics is about compelling people to respect certain values --- at the point of a gun if need be.

 

Becaquse politics is a high stakes activity, it always attracts players whjo will aim to appeal to the passionms and prejudices of their audience, and often to foment hatred of political opponents.

 

That's NORMAL behavior in both political parties in the United States, and throughout history for that matter.

 

Indeed, politics in the United states is still mostly a pillow fight. It's rare for either party to resort to large scale political violence or war against their political opponents.

 

So count yourself lucky --- and cross your fingers that this generosity towards political opponents by both parties continues.

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

[skeptic]

"So count yourself lucky --- and cross your fingers that this generosity towards political opponents by both parties continues." Huh?

 

Since when?

[NJCubScouter]

I think that what Seattle Pioneer Is suggesting is that our current situation is better than having a Second Civil War. I would have to agree. But I would also hope that there is, at least, a third choice that is better than both of the others. I think there is.

[TAHAWK]

Politics is a blood sport.

 

N.Y. Times, October 26, 1948:

PRESIDENT LIKENS DEWEY TO HITLER AS FASCISTS' TOOL

Says When Bigots, Profiteers Get Control of Country They Select 'Front Man' to Rule

DICTATORSHIP STRESSED.

 

 

[walk in the woods]

If a new major party were to form today, I think it would have to be the result of something similar - the breakup of one of the existing parties. If I had to guess, it would probably be the Republican party breaking up into a more conservative party and a less conservative party. But again, it's not likely to happen because the most likely result of such a split would be that the Democrats would get elected to everything.

This is an interesting proposition. Let's not forget it was only 20 years ago that the DLC was a potential threat to break up the Democrats. I'm not sure I agree with your assumption that a split would result in Democrats winning every office. I think if the Republicans were to split tomorrow we might be surprised at how fast conservative members of the Democratic party would move to the new centrist party that would form from the split. We saw something similar with the old "Solid South" split from the Democrats after Reagan won his election in 1980.

[walk in the woods]

"So count yourself lucky --- and cross your fingers that this generosity towards political opponents by both parties continues." Huh?

 

Since when?

 

Compared to the opposition in Russia being gunned down in the street I suppose.

[RememberSchiff]

There are lies, damn lies, and perhaps mind-boggling/intolerable/get-fired lies depending on the experience of the liar and the perspective of whoever is judging.

 

As you likely know, our secretary of Veteran Affairs Robert McDonald falsely claimed to a homeless veteran that he served in Special Forces. When exposed, the West Point graduate and former US Army Ranger admitted to his mistake and promised to “do better†and further said,

 

“My biggest motivation was to connect with the veteran,†Mr. McDonald told reporters Tuesday, referring to the homeless man. He said he had never before claimed to have been in the Special Forces, and insisted that throughout his life  from Boy Scouts to the present day  “integrity has been one of the foundations of my character.â€Â

 

Some grant forgiveness, some wish him luck "doing better" in his next job. Who should decide? Those from within the Beltway and Proctor&Gamble, or a panel of veterans who were all Boy Scouts, West Point graduates, and served in Special Forces, or veterans of all backgrounds, or...?

[Stosh]

Once one accepts the fact that all politicians are crooked liars, then life is a lot better. I always vote out the incumbents because I believe that an entrenched politician is far more dangerous than a novice learning the ropes. But if the public is stupid enough to keep voting in these clowns, then it's no one's fault but their own.

 

And when did it ever become common knowledge that countries and ideologies last for very long? Rome may have lasted 1000 years, but more recently look at the longevity of most modern countries of today. The US is well past an acceptable expiration date.

 

Stosh

[Sentinel947]

And when did it ever become common knowledge that countries and ideologies last for very long? Rome may have lasted 1000 years' date=' but more recently look at the longevity of most modern countries of today. The US is well past an acceptable expiration date. Stosh[/quote'] Even Rome underwent huge cultural shifts that in that time period. Monarchy city state to regional republic, to a republican empire, then an imperial dictatorship. Lastly in its twilight it became the home of Chrsitianity and the Catholic Church. my point being Rome was not one singular never changing entity in that time frame.

[packsaddle]

I will never forget the occasion...it was during that dreadful time when we were about to re-elect someone with Alzheimer's Disease... but for the time being there was a pleasant diversion at hand: Leonard Nimoy was here for an evening presentation and the auditorium was absolutely filled to standing room only. And everyone, me included, had arrived early to get the seats. So in an act of grotesque spontaneity, the student body began chanting, "Reagan, Bush, Four More Years" again and again.

And I sat there horrified at what the speaker must have been thinking at that moment somewhere behind those curtains,

"Beam me up, Scotty, no intelligent life here!"

[SeattlePioneer]

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Heh, heh! That was after a President running for reelection who was desperately ill with heart disease had a Navy doctor state that he was in good health. He died in office three months after being sworn in (FDR)

 

It was also after a candidate for President who has several life threatening chronic illnesses such as Addison's disease and was filled with a variety of drugs daily proclaimed that he was in good health. (JFK)

 

Woodrow Wilson was a helpless invalid for much of his last two months in office, --- the Presidency being run by his wife.

 

 

Just more evidence that politics and lying tend to go together, for a variety of reasons. Sometimes the truth just wont do, and one of the perquisites of political power is the ability to make a lie into the truth which is accepted by most people.

 

The Scout oath and Scout Law aren't an adequate basis upon which to govern the country.

 

Sorry.

[skeptic]

If you cannot see the difference between governing the country and governing yourself, then I simply have no hope. Those elected to be our representatives have an obligation to be the best individuals they can. And the simple tenets of Scouting, whether here or elsewhere are sound foundations on which to build. If we quit making excuses for ignorance, greed, power panderin, and the other vices in Pandora's infamous box, we then at least might move two steps forward for each backward, rather than the other way around.

 

It is interesting to me that our only Eagle Scout president, who was really appointed, rather than elected, had the courage to do what he thought right, even though he surely knew it would certainly doom his reelection. Yet looking back, most will acknowledge that his pardon of Nixon likely made our government more stable at the time, and certainly averted even darker days of political turmoil.

 

I suppose I am simply too simplistic in my expectations and should join the famous Don in jousting.

[TAHAWK]

As I said, a blood sport. Even here.

[JasonG172]

Once one accepts the fact that all politicians are crooked liars, then life is a lot better.

Stosh

 

 

You are exactly right Stosh. I use to watch Fox, CNN and all the news networks and on top of that listen to talk radio. I would really get hot about the issues and even ran for a city council position in my town. Then I took WoodBadge! I made a vow on my way home that I wouldn't waste anymore energy on politics what so ever and have cut it ALL out together! Message Boards, FaceBook, TV or Radio. NO matter what we say, think or do it won't make a difference to these folks....they keep getting elected in!